Remote Work’s Impact on IT

Ryan Purvis  0:00  
Hello, and welcome to the digital workspace works podcast. I'm Ryan Purvis, your host supported by producer Heather Bicknell. In this series, you'll hear stories and opinions from experts in their field story from the frontlines, the problems they face and how they solve them. The years they're focused on from technology, people and processes to the approaches they took that will help you to get to the script for the digital workspace inner workings.

Samer Frangie  0:31  
My name is Samir Frangie. I'm CTO of French value added distributor called Neo VOD focused on mainly three business units, user experience digital monitoring. The other one is security, mostly data security and the other one is data center and automation. We distribute this software vendors mainly us and French software across the French territory and we had the technical and the sales sales enablement of our partners in order to develop this software and on the French market mainly and a bit on the European market for some. Okay,

Ryan Purvis  1:12  
great, great. Would you mind tell us a bit about what the digital workspace means to you?

Samer Frangie  1:18  
Yes, digital workspace is, is how I started the oldest oldest centers three at first I joined the orange with big French system integrator is what used to be new technologies in around Citrix, VMware and stuff. It was the type of technologies that interested me on diversity visualization. We started going on with VMware, Citrix Hyper V, and then things evolves, all the clients goes went through this type of architecture. So the problems came with it, you know, the client has a bigger as a client, the complexity goes visit and it becomes very, it becomes very, very challenging for us and it's something that interested me a lot and we went to it and we been working for into it like 10 years now.

Ryan Purvis  2:08  
Okay, that's good. And what would we need to talk about complicating what what what would be the sort of size of a customer or and what would be the complicated piece?

Samer Frangie  2:18  
Is this, the sizes is very important, but it's not the only it's the only thing to measure. It's a maturity of the IT department, if they really know what they have, and they want where they want to go. And this is really what the main the main problem I see is this type of project is a client jump steps, you know, burn some step and go one go directly to sizing or to migrating and stuff. And we can quickly see that it's a nightmare. So you need to use at first assessment solution like Lake type software to really see what are the users really using which application what resources which This application will be compatible with the architecture we are leaning to how many version of specific applications 16 bit 32 bit 64 bits. So all the complexities that you might not be aware of because you are managing like an endpoint that was an endpoint management solution, this desktop, and when it goes into centralizes, all the complexity around all this, we will surely have problem on the application side. So this is written as a strike part on an analyzing user experience and user analysis. And the other type is infrastructure, you know, sizing the Right, right, virtual infrastructure infrastructure for let's say, virtual desktop and stuff. A bit of oversizing for big clients could be a lot of money, and even worse, of course, if it's undersized. Okay.

Heather Bicknell  3:53  
I think it's I think it's pretty safe to say that any plans that organizations had coming into this year have been sufficiently done erupted at this point. So how are you seeing the projects change for your clients and what kind of things are people getting up to now

Samer Frangie  4:08  
of course this year is a is a very specific year. You know, it's not like all the others years we started with lots of projects regarding user experience, improving user experience and stuff, but with all what happened we know you're using COVID and everything associated to it, we lost a lot of project because people weren't looking at value at first, they are now looking for cost cutting for ROI and this type of project on the digital environment and project our long side cycle project and it's not necessarily that easy to to show you knows as a return on investment in a short term and stuff so it's it becomes really complicated for the IT department to invest today in order to gain tomorrow's I don't have money today to invest those a zation There are their priorities to other to other solutions, you know, as the saying goes one month or with another man Joe so Joyce are we, we lost some project on the digital environment monitoring. We gained some on the security on the data security on the audit and traceability we also gain lots of project with our sassy solutions of secure access service edges. So everything related to SD one security and VPN agentless clients and stuff.

Ryan Purvis  5:33  
Yeah, I was gonna ask you with with the sort of everyman push to work from home and the lockdowns that we've had you seen a technology shift or culture shift.

Samer Frangie  5:44  
I think afterwards at COVID all the remote working aspect would be completely revolutionized the productivity part people, while using a solution like SR I could manage the product could measure the product activity of their users. And they see that people work. Of course, not all but most people work at least, the same amount that used to at the office. And myself I work for example, in Paris, a square meter in Paris is really, really expensive. So many people are looking on reducing the, the surface, let's say of their, of their office in Paris and do like 50% work from home 50% done in the office, and the ROI and ROI sorry, in English is, is really straightforward for the business now. And of course, there's a technical aspect because the user working from home it's, it's not the same SLA, it's not the same facility and ease of measurement of productivity of analysis and staff. It's not the same. It's very, very more complex to do. Of course, level one support For example, you know, you can't go to the desktop user and see what's going on. So you need to be well prepared. The covered was a bit of a harsh move, let's say so people weren't really that prepared. So strike

released what we call a strike kits. It's

It's a gift, it's a dashboard and, and reports in order to help these companies measure what's going on how to make it better, and are they are they as an IT department prepare to manage this type of new usage or no?

Ryan Purvis  7:37  
See, I could see his smile in his

Heather Bicknell  7:39  
Well, it's just interesting that because, you know, I, I worked on a lot of that messaging, just to hear it reflected back from our partners very, it's just it cool, I guess, um, because that was something, you know, when, when everything started changing. We, you know, kind of came together as a company, like, how can we provide, you know, how can we help our customers Right now, how can we help the industry right now? You know, do we have a role here, I think it was really hard to just even decide to kind of step out and offer something because we were, you know, there was a lot of fear at the time is of appearing, you know, opportunistic or trying to take, you know, advantage of a crisis or something like that. So, but, you know, our engineering team really came together to create those dashboards and work closely with customers to say, like, you know, what, what could we show you right now, that would really be valuable. And that's where that that remote work kit came from? Is that customer feedback and, you know, needing to ultimately see what's happening for my end users now that they're at home, and what kind of experience impacts are they having, and then how can I make it better?

Ryan Purvis  8:47  
So purely a question to both of you? I mean, what was the response to that?

Samer Frangie  8:55  
What's good do is strike. I don't want to do lots of publicity, but what's good you strike By default, it collects all the data as you know when so when the new use cases is here, like remote office, z data is already here, you just need to know how to analyze it to clients. As I said before, COVID was really harsh. It was not like planned, let's say in June, we'll go in, in confinement in September. So take your time. No, it was like, today. In two days, not everyone was at home. So what is the knowledge of, of what they used to do, and what they are going to do as really important in order to, to guarantee at least as a minimum to start with. And of course, it's really the first week was harder as the second one was easier because you learn a bit and you are able to, to explore the data as the way you want it to and the way it helps you about your end user.

Heather Bicknell  9:58  
Yeah, I think You know, from from my side, I think, you know, we started thinking, Okay, how can we help people plan the move to remote work? And then within, you know, a week or two, it became apparent that there's really not we're past the planning stage, like people just need to move home and how can we how can we helped with that? So we really shifted to focusing more on the monetary piece and of course, still kind of reverse planning or planning after the fact as you can. But yeah, I mean, I think, you know, from from my perspective, as a, as a marketer, I guess, you know, the reception is really good. You know, people definitely heard about it, and, you know, we are offering it for free. We still are so, you know, a trial of it, that people can, can go, you know, sign up for and check out and I think that helped as well just, you know, being very open and available to help.

Ryan Purvis  10:57  
You I think that was if there's anything about the republic To cover so I've been helpful mm hmm and i think that you know, those those sort of projects that you normally planned for three months before we started in people do things to do the 48 hours. I'm sure there's many of us probably still many it guys and business people are still stressing about getting people to work and

giving them operational.

I know anecdotally, one of the forums I mean, they mentioned they went and bought basically every laptop they could find in the nearest computer shop the new metal what the spec was just because it hadn't been for that they've their desktops and everything else and people talk to people that don't have anything to use

Samer Frangie  11:38  
for us it was you know, it wasn't I didn't have time to plan so you didn't say you can say like I will have a centralized Citrix environment where everyone was good with connects to Bill BYOD and stuff it were way beyond that it was your at home now, how can we, I don't want to say hell but how can we do to make you productive because it's the You're costing us money in a way so. So that's why all the data we've gathered before using sis track or using workspace analytic tools are really helpful in this type. Because you like with personas and stuff, you can say exactly who is doing what, and you can take decisions. It's all about decisions with this type of product. It's not like, I will list an Excel sheet with all my users. And for each one out why would I map in, you know, this is you start this if you are a company with 100 users, okay? But when you are thousand or 10,000 100,000, it's practically impossible to group you use a new way that you can make quick decisions about based on read actual accurate data. So it was always this that was their remote working, let's say kit, had people move smoothly to this to this transition.

Ryan Purvis  12:54  
You mentioned Sorry,

Heather Bicknell  12:56  
no, I I guess I'm just curious Ryan. How how different You think your life would be right now, if you were still working at a large, super large organization managing all of this?

Ryan Purvis  13:07  
I'm sure, I think a lot of that was to begin with. But I've been in some senses, I think, fortunately, the two organizations I've worked with both kinda prepared for this. Not necessarily as the primary objective, but but as an objective anyway, so both of them had put in place VDI infrastructure as the go to for the majority of the workers anyway. But the business case were either around data protection or data leak protection, and the other one was supposed to save money, but you'd never save money with vdrs. It's

something in buying a bunch of devices.

But I think the, I guess the benefit within those two organizations is that is the ability to scale up and put more people on the platform in any way. NC would have probably been there because in both organizations it was you know, there was a footprint there was designed for that kind of stuff that anyone thought that actually turn it on and use it.

I probably probably know what they would

the judging from the sort of LinkedIn stuff I'm seeing in New York sort of focal here, and they're going to be stressful the first couple weeks, but it probably would have petered down to normal normalcy we've gone from sort of normal stress down to a little bit less stress, because that's it's always in that space never goes too far. So, but it's been interesting. So just to give you the sort of Converse, chatting to some of these businesses that hadn't had a VDI or Terminal Services, environment, whatever, and they tried to now operationalize, as I say, buying laptops, many we haven't really picked a VPN client and managed to go find a VPN client so they don't know even where to start. I think that's it. Far more stressful situation to be in then sort of stress of a bank that's already doing that kind of stuff by by design. So So you mentioned the security aspect, as I was curious to know, was it was a more security because of people working remotely? Or was that because companies are taking the opportunity to, to bolster the security projects?

Samer Frangie  15:24  
You know, regarding the COVID, or globally with digital environment,

Ryan Purvis  15:29  
well, with with your products that you that you work with your security products, you mentioned that security,

Samer Frangie  15:34  
security product, it's called networks auditor. And as states, it's here to tell you who did what, when and where using data. So when your users are working from home, who access to which data who read to try to access which document and mainly with Office 365 is OneDrive. You're losing control, you know, because you're not protected was with all the investment you did with an on premise security solution. You don't have your local DLP you don't have your firewall in, you don't have all your security. It's mainly someone behind the books in at home, you know, consulting, what it might be really dangerous data. So you need to have control on audit what and where, in case you have a problem, you can see what was responsible, and most importantly, to be alerted on an abnormal activity in order to be able to react. Yeah, it's mostly about keeping control over over dangerous data.

Ryan Purvis  16:32  
That's a big thing. I mean, you know, when someone's in an office, they tend to not use a sort of dodgy things, but it's very easy to install. If you haven't got the right rights in place, another file sharing application like Dropbox or Google Drive or whatever it is, and as you bring things down with one drivers, copy them across.

Samer Frangie  16:52  
Yeah, it depends on the maturity of the security if you know they are solution that prevent you from doing this. It's You have for example a Kaz be solution I personally distributed with just part of it, it can block you from sharing from downloading from uploading. You have it has DLP to check which documents you are downloading, does it have sensitive word based on GDPR library or stuff and it will block it or it will encrypt it or it will. You know, it depends. It's always the same question with security. How much money are you willing to spend? Depending on the capacity of your business? It's always Where do I put the arrow? You know?

Ryan Purvis  17:36  
Yeah, it's a you got to balance that usability versus security versus functionality. Yeah.

Samer Frangie  17:42  
There's, you know, a banquet event the bank will invest much more in securities and I you know, another company with no real secret, you know, service company like a consulting company and stuff.

Ryan Purvis  17:58  
So, let's see, and this might be a bit of a load Question but what the way that the French law is around working hours and sort of email around if you think those will change now with remote working?

Samer Frangie  18:11  
No. French people are very, very complicated you know it's on technology wise it's a huge market. You know, every software vendors wants to be established in French market you have very, very big companies around banks around oil and stuff around services, but they are not at all early adopters. So it's not easy at the technological aspect. You need the you know of an Inc and the US company will first open its offices in the in the UK, this is normal and legitimate because of the language facility. But before going you to France, we will go to Amsterdam, you will go to Germany and then hopefully go into the French market because it will take a lot more seating was a French marker that you will do on The other European and then the people themself, you know, I'm French I want to be attacking French people but the low are let's say, I have to say that English are limiting the the capacity and even more with remote office we have a very very nice single thing that was done in France it was the state helping every company with what we call a partial partial work, let's say so if you used to gain 100 grand, the company would pay you 50 the state would give you pay us the rest, but you work only 50%. So but you need to prove that you didn't send email after your you know, the 50% you didn't use your cell phone and stuff. So it's more than a trust. trust relationship between the state and companies and it's always mess you know they I think they did it like 3000 companies so far 850 we're doing nonsense

Unknown Speaker  20:11  
so always

Samer Frangie  20:13  
know it's always it's it was always the problem is a state his name I'm going to politics i don't think i should because

Ryan Purvis  20:24  
I stopped because I mean I remember something along those lines that you couldn't if you sent an email to a French person in theory they wouldn't reply after some time and in some cases I was it was true not because you weren't allowed to send email it was after the time

Samer Frangie  20:41  
or sorry I had to pick is a product of security IE we talked about a few minutes ago was was like was for this Did someone send an email or not that we time Did someone connected the weekend so all this info was also important

Heather Bicknell  21:03  
and that's part of it is job to monitor those things.

Samer Frangie  21:06  
Yep. Security IQ.

Ryan Purvis  21:10  
Yeah, sorry, this working working civilizations you have a function for surveillance. You know, obviously what is going on that kind of stuff. So you do you do, you're watching for for user patterns and seeing if someone does something out of band, in fact, there was a case where they found a guy who was doing illegal trades, because you happen to log in the one time late at night, which you didn't usually do something to the extreme, close those days. So to check in that sort of stuff. It's obviously an issue and a privacy point of view. But

Samer Frangie  21:47  
it's another debate but that's not necessarily You know, you're not going the data itself. You're going on only interactivity. Yeah. So it's not really personal if you're using his company account and connecting to a company. The resource

No, it's not person anymore. You know

Ryan Purvis  22:04  
what? Well that's exactly it. You sign your life away when you when you sign a contract. And it basically says if you use a corporate device, you'll be monitored. So even to the extent of reading an email, which a lot of people don't realize

Heather Bicknell  22:18  
this reminds me a bit of our Japanese Lakeside team came to a meeting once with a story of a customer who wanted to use this track to make sure employees weren't working over 40 hours a week. So to actually monitor productivity in the sense of not being overly productive. And I was just stunned because no one's ever. I'd never heard anyone raise that issue before. So the cultural differences are interesting.

Ryan Purvis  22:46  
That's an interesting because I've actually heard one of the things that are not true this is that if the boss works late, everyone works late. The boss goes Sinclair, the oldest sing karaoke, it's very much that sort of thing. I don't have to It is.

Samer Frangie  23:00  
Yeah, I've odours I've also also heard some stuff like you're where you are, when you sleep at work, like for 10 or 20 minutes, it's something good. It means you're working too hard and you can't anymore and you should sleep. In French it's not the same.

Ryan Purvis  23:19  
You say that injury occurred because I've managed to get a 10 minute nap every afternoon. Well, meditation session, it's made a big difference.

For me, I'm really struggling to go back to work and I can't do that.

Heather Bicknell  23:36  
To me, I am interested, you know, just based on your sort of profile information that you you filled out for us. Why in your career, you sort of decided to make the shift from infrastructure to the workspace and kind of your your journey there. If you

Samer Frangie  23:56  
Yes, of course. At first, I started with infrastructure. was mainly VMware EMC NetApp or the storage and the the hypervisor part of it. But I'm I don't like to I don't want to be

not arrogant I don't want to do self

promotion but I'm not someone who likes to settle you know, on on specific technology. So it was I was feeling that I was repeating myself. Same products even if you change the software vendor, you know, it would be like instead of clicking on the left to pick on the right by basically it's the same. I wanted new challenges. If I was lucky, because I had the confidence of my management and they shifted me also to like created practically a new line, which are we'll be working on the infrastructure part and the digital inviting and in ways that are necessarily you know, related the impact you have as a video infraction For example, on the net on the storage is a huge so knowing both sides of the of the equation was really a value for me. And then it was interesting, interesting for me because for small project, of course, not the huge bank was 100,000. But our clients like 100 300 500 users, I was able to handle a project from the start, let's say architecture exists storages and the hypervisors and the Citrix or VMware part and doing all the user analysis or the assessment type. It was something I wanted to one and then interestingly,

Unknown Speaker  25:39  
then

Samer Frangie  25:41  
it was not necessarily my decision, but we had the the big project we have was mostly related to Citrix. So I was in way more specialized in the digital environment monitoring and I have a few words working specific dances being a Citrix architect and stuff. So when I was like they belong with me and I was more specialized on this part, but I always kept the look on the infrastructure, how it evolved and how it could impact the digital environment monitoring. This was my first let's see six, seven years of work. And then when I joined neova, add new words value added distributor, you know, it's we're not looking to sell known products like Microsoft like Citrix like VMware. We specialize in, in US product or or local French products that are aren't developed in the French region. But we started looking at assessment and digital analysis, monitoring and environment monitoring solution because we came from this, me and my boss who is the founder of Neo that. We came from this Citrix words are we are we knew where the pain pain points where we knew there was a gap to be filled on Decide. And when we contacted the lakeside Schroer, Citrix knowledge they say. And we went into the journey together.

Heather Bicknell  27:10  
Yeah, it just it seems nice to have that knowledge all the way through because I know you know, one of the issues that gets talked about a lot is just the silos that exist inside of it and how those teams aren't necessarily talking to each other. And that's where you know things can fall through the cracks and break down

Ryan Purvis  27:33  
into a project I mean, how do you start a project what what do you what are the sort of first steps you take to digital experience monitoring project?

Samer Frangie  27:43  
What What I do is first is really understand the client, what they mean is what they are aiming to do. What exactly are they aiming to do not like? It's a new thing. Now let's do a digital divide, pointing project. What are your pain point today that you want to Solve. How are you good? How are you trying to solve them today? And what are Why aren't you successful? Which are the because the biggest mistake I think is thinking that it's an IT project. Isn't that what it's involving, like many departments?

People from New say

people in zoo in the knowing the application and the work applications and stuff you need to really understand cause workload how user use the application, mostly. It's far more important and how it is installed or does it you know, does it need the drivers or stuff like this all the technical aspects, you can manage and with a product like sis truck, you practically don't have to think about it. It's done out of the box, but it's understanding the complexity around this. This type of project is the return on investment. You need to multiply use cases because if you just say I need to No, I need to know if you my user happy or not, you will never go to go to the end of the project, it will be too costly for this this type of information. So you need to, to think out of the box, showing them all the alternative on the Help Desk on the optimization of the help desk and the ease of decision making. And these are decision making, it will involve the CTO, it will involve the smallest engineer it will involve the person responsible of work application. So it's really trying to find harmony between all this. All this, let's say, components, even if they are human, I don't know if you say it but to be able to, you know, once you get you have all the data you interviewed, you interviewed the users see how they work, why they work, you have the data gathered from this track on the Real Usage, real application and resource consumption. And let's what what I want to go the political aspect of the project when you have all this data You are good to go. And you know that where you are going and you know that you're gonna go there. You might have X more problem around the way, but you know what? Eventually we'll get there. And if you say, Okay, let's jump into it and see what we where we would go. It would be really, really complicated to

not lose money. Let's see.

Ryan Purvis  30:18  
And do you agree that it's worth focusing on a small group of users first and then working up to bigger? Or do you look at

Samer Frangie  30:27  
a small I would say no, unless you I would say like 10 or 20% of the users is minimum. And then you don't you know that it's common sense. You don't take all the users the same department, you don't analyze data in August where everyone is on holiday. So you need common sense, but I would say like 10 or 20% of the users and they need to be well chosen. Let's see. If you have different profile, we go back to this person our discussion, but You have a different profile, you need to take a representative portion of each profile if all of them are going to this project, not let's say, people in France, for example, tend to say, Okay, I will give you as a site in Paris. Okay, maybe all day, they all do the same thing. That's not what I'm looking for, as they are close as a data center. So also complexity latency networks. I want to have it so I need I really need something accurate. And the more representative possible.

Ryan Purvis  31:31  
Yeah, agreed. Yeah, personas is very powerful. If you can get that if you can get least, let's say five personas defined maybe seven at the most that f&e helps you to targeted? Hey, what are your your thoughts on on the CCIE security design as part of your approach to project

Samer Frangie  31:51  
what what we see in France mostly GDPR with personal data, so What websites are being used? How many times what application are being used and stuff? So depending on the product you're using as a project, it could be easy or complicated. For example, for instance, sis track, you can say, Okay, if I'm in transformation project I don't care about who's anonymize everyone, and it's what it was interesting for me that's a big data aspect is who's using what and I don't really care who's the person who's the person behind it. And when you say for example, I want to see who's using websites you can say, Okay, I only want to check websites, like of my own company like star.my company comm if someone goes to Facebook first, I don't care if he's happy or not when he's going to Facebook. And you know, I don't want to know it. So but when he goes into his intranet or is the look in CRM or stuff like this, this I want to make sure he has a good experience. He doesn't have impact on productivity. So was the GDPR aspect is really important, then you have the how to access out to access data is also something relevant in this type of project.

Ryan Purvis  33:17  
Yeah, I know what I was wondering about is the

one of those guests were one of the other guests is around security by design, and how that often isn't part of their initial planning, or these are all legacy things that haven't been designed with that in mind, and they get to retrofit it back on, which adds a lot of cost. Not only people in financial cost, but also the time you've lost as made the chair to catch up a lot more, because you're holding it in later on. And then, you mentioned GDPR when I was thinking about some of the other sort of regulations like a banking banking regulations or some of that

and exact Exactly.

Can you Find

when you talk with your customers, you know that they have a sort of common set of problems, or do you find that they are fairly unique because of what industry they're in?

Samer Frangie  34:12  
Yep. You know, they are. They are, let's say, a common problem is the lack of knowledge of the IT department. Right? Things I know I was a user's work, but they actually don't. Yeah, people things I know which application is really used, but they actually don't. And this is what you see when you finish these. Let's see what I call the assessment part of those the project. You tell them okay, you see this application for this one, you have like 12 version, and of the 12 version, there are only two that are being used by 99% of the population. So this is the rest of the 10. Okay, right. So it's, it's really an people things I know, but eventually, but in reality is let's say they don't know and, you know, it's not easy to tell them that you don't know let me show you how it how it goes. You know, it's Always the speech around around the states. I'm not here to tell you what to do. It's, it's for your own good that I'm telling you to do this, you know what

Ryan Purvis  35:10  
he said earlier, it's about making a decision, but you need good data to make decisions. And you're moving the opinion from the evidence.

Samer Frangie  35:18  
The more data you have, the more accurate you can be in decision making. You know, that's, that's for It's big. It's a big data concept. And you you asked me earlier about how I see the digital environment in in a few years, I think the biggest problem it will be IoT. Because IoT, it will be January, users will evolve you know, 10 years ago you were doing something to the you're in a B or the environment. Now we are going to remote working with and without VR and stuff like this. And while this is data and data and data now you have Tesla cars connected to everything you have and you use the idea of the of the work itself, it's the you know, works is not the place like Citrix used to say. So you need to be able to adapt to everything. And IoT part is really interesting. But the technical complexity behind it is that it's like raw data. And it's a massive quantity of data. This is like does this really, really well today, with let's say, only 10,000 data points collected. But with IoT, we'll be going to speaking about more very, very, very large numbers. And it's an architecture problem for the digital divide monitoring. If we keep the same speech, like we want to, to measure user experience and productivity across every device, make sure he's happy everywhere. No. Two strikes I have today the Android agency, Chrome OS agency, Mac, Linux windows, it's always on the ideas at follows the user wherever he is, and make sure he's happy. The next Step could be IoT and it would be not like I'm ready to be complete different.

Ryan Purvis  37:06  
Yeah. I don't know how to say, well, it is one of those areas that doesn't have a lot of governance in place. So a lot of those devices are built without any security or

Samer Frangie  37:17  
security. So, of course, always

Heather Bicknell  37:20  
sounds good. I mean, I think, you know, we we wanted to end on sort of the what the, what the future of work looks like, I know he, you know, at the IoT, we were sort of getting into the future discussion, but I guess me or is there anything? Do you have any other sort of visions for, for where we're going?

Samer Frangie  37:39  
In the 2d environment, I think we'll be shifting more into I already said the IoT part and to the onlys and even more the cloud aspect of it because you know, with the flexibility scalability, for instance, we talked about COVID if you have audio environment in the cloud, who cares about you much working you know, whether you're accessing from home on for free The, from the office since since we have, let's say, a good internet connection, you can have access to the resources with all the security and stuff. So lots and lots of workloads will be shifting to the cloud. With with the IoT is only the main two things I think I see is the future for the digital invite monitoring.

Heather Bicknell  38:25  
Great and if if anyone wants to get in touch with you, what's the best way to do that?

Samer Frangie  38:32  
He can of course drop me an email call me wherever you have my you guys have my contact, you can share it. No problem. Sorry for anyone want to get in touch for any specific reason. No problem.

Heather Bicknell  38:48  
Great. Well, thanks so much for joining us on the podcast and having this conversation.

Samer Frangie  38:53  
Thank you guys. Thank you, Ryan. For for having me.

Ryan Purvis  39:00  
Thank you for listening to today's episode and the big producer editor. Thank you, Heather for your hard work on this episode. Please subscribe on iTunes Google Play Store on twitter at the WWE podcast. The show notes and transcripts only available on the website, www dot digital workspace that works. Please also visit our website www dot digital workspace that works and subscribe to our newsletter. And lastly, if you found this episode useful, please share with your friends or colleagues

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