Cybersecurity Challenges in Aviation & Data Centers | Interview with Sagi Brody

Ryan Purvis: Hello, and welcome to the Digital Workspace Works podcast. I'm Ryan Purvis, your host, supported by our producer, Heather Bicknell. In this series, you'll hear stories and opinions from experts in the field, stories from the front lines, the problems they face and how they solve them, the areas they're focused on from technology, people, and processes to the approaches they took that will help you to get to the scripts for the Digital Workspace inner workings.

Welcome Sagi to the Digital Workspace Works Podcast. Do you want to introduce yourself please?

Sagi Brody: Sure. Sagi Brody. I am the CTO of, Webair, and then Webair turned into Opti9, so it was the CTO of Webair, which I founded with a co founder about 20 something years ago, and then we sold that, and that turned into Opti9, and so I am the CTO of Opti9 now.

I also, have a small consulting firm called 10Forward, in which I provide consulting services to digital infrastructure, companies and cybersecurity companies.

Ryan Purvis: Great stuff.

And if you wouldn't mind telling me what the digital workspace means to you, please.

Sagi Brody: Yeah, I mean, so when I think, digital workspace, you know, I think first, thing that pops up is, you know, sort of work from home.

But I think it's much more than that, right? It's, having the right context, the right, tooling the right physical environments and you know, all the ingredients you need to be able to, get your work done wherever you go, interact with customers and colleagues and efficient ways.

I think of asynchronous communication. I've been working with teams who have been located all over the world for a very long time who worked for me. And so being able to communicate asynchronously, to be able to switch tooling, you know, working with different customers and partners, you can't always force them onto your set of tools.

You have to kind of wrap around with what their workflow looks like. And so just being able to kind of be flexible as important. I've been working in a remote capacity, for almost the entirety of my career in some remote capacity. I've also worked, you know, in person, at the office. But I've always found that

I get bored if I'm working from one place too long, it becomes boring. So I would always purposely change my physical location to kind of mix things up a bit.

Ryan Purvis: We're very similar to like that. I

mean, I work from home as well and, you know, originally from South Africa and working from home in South Africa, you kind of do your thing early in the morning because the weather's 35, you go to gym, you work, you might go and

it's a golf balls. You might go see the clients and then you come home and you carry working. Or you might go to the office just to pop in and see what's going on. And then I moved to the UK, which was very much a, got to be in the office from seven to seven and you know, if you're not there, you're not working sort of mentality.

And I found that very difficult because often what we were doing was sitting on the phone talking to people in the same building, which I could have done from home. and then it would be a global organisation. You are dealing with different time zones as well. So you're constantly, dealing with different cultures and all the rest of it, but you've been forced into this office all the time, which was very like counterproductive, to things.

I'm interested to find, I mean, with, cause you mentioned obviously having Opti9 Tech and then you have in the 10Forward. How do you juggle your time? And allocate your time between the two different things. I would expect that kind of different, but they're complimentary.

Sagi Brody: Yeah. you know, from almost my entire career, I worked for, one company, which I co founded and, was highly focused on that.

In fact, my own sort of personal identity was the company. Like every username I create would be WebAir Sagi and, I wouldn't discern between the two. And so, now that I have Opti9 as, a company that I work for, but it's not me, and then I have a bunch of other customers, you know, I do find it, difficult to kind of switch or prioritise and do that.

I mean, some of it is going to obviously be respond, you know, being responsive is probably the number one thing when, having managed teams before, you know, fairly large product teams, development teams. The last thing that I want to do is be a blocker for anyone else. And so if there are any blocker, if anyone is blocked on work because they're waiting for an answer, that's always my priority.

I find that besides that, you know, gotta get excited about what you're doing. Like if you have the luxury of being able to juggle a few things and none of them are terribly pressing with the deadline of tomorrow, then what I found is sort of at some point, you just your mind just naturally gravitates towards, like, you I know how I'm going to get this thing done, or I know how I want to attack this.

And a lot of times it doesn't happen when you're in front of your computer. It happens sort of the night before. Where you're like, I just had a great idea and tomorrow morning, I'm just going to like, I'm super motivated to just get this done. Probably the most important thing I would say for me, you know, sort of juggling a few times.

Like, so what I've done is I've invested in a few tech startups, cyber startups. One is a really cool company called Cyviation, which does cyber security for physical aircraft. yeah, I mean, you know, that's, that's fun. Another is, A company that has hypervisor, which is an alternative to VMware now, which is going through some stuff.

So, I mean, the most important thing for me with all this is, these are cool projects. These are fun. I can get passionate about these sort of projects and tasks. And I can jump in and that's the most important thing is. Being able to, to get passionate about what I'm working on, and get excited about it, that seems to fix everything else.

It even fixes sort of the menial sort of busy work because, if you're reminding yourself that you're doing something cool and there isn't an ends to the means, and can get into it, you know, but to answer your question, sometimes it can be annoying when, you know, I guess so before this one company is using Slack and this one's using ClickUp and then this one's using Trello or Monday.

That is certainly annoying. You know, I had this beautiful vision in my mind of I would have one project product management system. I'd have separate folders for all of my customers and projects and single pane of glass. That's definitely not happening. I gave up on that. But I will say, I think, I'm sure you would agree, anyone who's been working online for a long time has gotten very used to being distracted, switching, you know, multitasking, switching gears, so you just got to deal with it.

Ryan Purvis: Yeah, you're right. I mean, the amount of email accounts that I have, I'm sure you have many as well, and it's Teams mixing. When Teams for a long time wouldn't allow you to have multiple organisations. So that was quite tricky. And now it's Slack and Teams running in parallel. Which I find frustrating. And I don't know what the solution is, because you can get sort of cross pollinating services that can give you the sort of Teams that talks to Slack, and Slack talks to Teams.

But even then, it's not a completely consistent experience, and that's why I don't know what the solution is. Do you do anything around managing your time? Like certain parts of the day are blocked out for certain companies or check ins or things like that? Do you try to stay operationally out of some of them and some of them you are operationally hands on?

Sagi Brody: Yeah, that's a really good question and I think in a perfect world I would, because then I would have an expectation for myself. But what I found is in the past is every time that I've tried to do that, I don't know, it's sort of like this looming stressor over me that like, oh, I have to switch gears right now and, I found myself to be very, resistive to it because I sort of just had this natural flow of just sort of wanting to go back and forth and wanting flexibility.

So, right now, I'm not, but I think again, being responsive to customer needs and deadlines and all that forces you into doing that on the short term. On the longterm, no. I mean, like yourself when you were in, the UK, I mean, was going into the office and working like a nine to five.

I mean, it didn't preclude me from going home and working, you know, at night, or working when I was on trips or maybe going to a coffee shop here and there. But I did almost feel guilty not working nine to five, like I wasn't the normal, like, wasn't working enough. But I've since post COVID I moved from New York to Florida, sold my business.

And I've just gotten really comfortable with flexibility. And for me, flexibility is the number one thing. Being able to go pick up my kids if my wife needs me to at the last second. If somebody wants to go and play a game of pickleball, which has gotten real popular over here, going and doing that.

You know, I think it may, when you prioritise yourself first, it makes the work like it makes not feel so bad. Because like it's just a counterbalance to, you know, things that are important to you.

Ryan Purvis: I think it's a good point. I mean, I, don't get the sort of sport stuff as much as I used to, but gym is quite important to Got to jump down the road that I get to sort of three o'clock in the morning, four o'clock in the morning.

But, it's just because the days are so busy with meetings and that's why I asked the question around, do you have sort of set time that you allocate per thing? But I think you're right about having an integrated experience where you've got the flexibility, like I've got kids at five. So, you know, I know that I've got to run and do that.

So I think it's good to have that, mindset, that's all integrated and flexible.

Sagi Brody: I will say that, up until maybe six months ago and for five years, the five years before that, you know, I was on zoom probably like, seven hours a day straight. And I just found like, I had to be, I mean, probably not, but I thought I had to be. It was just, and I'm sure you would agree.

It's just so draining on you as a person, especially when you're talking to customers. Or people that you're trying to win over potential customers. Or people that you're managing. Or you need to put up a, like a certain front or facade, you know, it just is totally draining. And trying to find a balance

where I don't need to do that, because I just don't want to be tied to zoom all day. You know, it's just not what my idea of this is what I'm going to do all day. You know, I mean, sometimes you have to, obviously takes a lot out of you.

Ryan Purvis: Yeah. And I think your point on asynchronous working is important.

I think there's a need. I definitely noticed it with some personalities, I guess. Some people need to have a meeting in order to get their work done. and some people are quite happy just to get given the problem and let them go solve it. And there's probably a middle ground there where you have to just check in and see how things are going.

But whether it warrants a 30 minute meeting every time or a 60 minute meeting every time to solve a problem, I think that's the thing we have to challenge ourselves on.

Sagi Brody: I have found that the 45 minute meeting, it is like this new trendy thing where, if you send someone an invite for 45 minutes.

You're kind of being, in a way, respectful of their time, right? Because it's not a 30. It's like, if it's more than 30, it means it's fairly important. But if it's 60 by de facto, it's like, we have so much time, we, can waste time. So I like 45. I think it's a good one.

Yeah. Yeah. Notice people have been doing that more. I mean, you know, obviously anything, if I can do something chat, I mean, that's the best. I also noticed that like as a manager and in a fully remote capacity, I almost felt like this. There's some companies and cultures.

There's this like pressure that you need to have one on ones twice a week. Once a week, every other two weeks. And, you know, that's fine, and it seems harmless, but you put a, few of those on your calendar and a recurring capacity, then you put a bunch of other, maybe, you know, innocent biweekly calls before you know it, I mean, you are just slammed.

And it is half the time on those one on ones. Like you're making up things to talk about. Cause you ran out, but it's like, I need to do this. I'm a manager, it's like, if I don't do it, I'm, you know, I'm not, I'm showing this person that I don't value them. So, and then after a while you find yourself writing to the person like, Hey, you got anything to go over?

No, I'm good. I let just, you know, it's just so backwards. Right. And so I think people need to like, kind of be open to not having to do that. Yeah. I used to use 15. 5 for a while, which would sort of get me out of these questions without having to do calls. I think that's, you know, that's useful, but even at some point that became like repetitive and meaningless too.

Ryan Purvis: Yeah.

my solution to that is pretty much to my direct, if you need something, you book it in my diary. We talk if we don't need it, we're not going to take up the time every week. cause it was all those things you've mentioned. And also fine because you're working remotely, you tend to be talking quite a lot anyway.

Cause there's no other way to interact. But there's a need to build trust somehow. And that's, the hard part, especially if you're remote is how do you build trust with people you haven't met physically?

Sagi Brody: Yeah, I think so. to me, like thinking about some of this, the hangouts feature in Slack.

Seems to be like a nice happy middle ground, right? Because we're communicating video text. It's on demand responsive as needed, right? And so if you can, have enough time, you know, open time in your schedule where you can jump on those as needed, you can be super efficient.

Ryan Purvis: Yeah, yeah. I think that's the point is you've got to be, Oh, I made the joke this morning. We're an adaptive business. We have to adapt every situation. So if this week we need a lot of one to ones because we're under stress and we're trying to keep everyone calm and, make sure they're okay, then you do the one to ones.

But if it's a period where things are going and everyone's okay, then you don't need to have the one to ones and you've got to kind of feel the pulse of your organisation. I mean, do you wanna talk a little bit about Webair or Opti9? Tell me a little about that because it's, it is interesting to me from what, what I do.

Sagi Brody: Yeah. Opti9, provides managed cloud services. So, we manage private cloud deployments that we run on behalf of our customers. Typically enterprise type of businesses, healthcare, financial services, legal, anything with a compliance use case. We manage they're public clouds as well.

So anything on AWS and the idea is sort of right workload, right cloud, right time. The idea that there is no one cloud or home that is the best out there for everything. The idea is that it's use case specific and we as a company, are fiduciary to your workloads. We have the workload's best interest at heart.

And instead of selling you on this cloud or that cloud, let us help you build a reference architecture or digital infrastructure and for multi cloud and hybrid so that you can have that adaptiveness and flexibility. So for this use case, we're going to place it here. We're going to maintain your framework for security, your network integrations, but we will allow you and manage on your behalf, multiple cloud platforms.

In a way that meets your requirements. We also have a big focus on business continuity. So managed backups as a service managed disaster recovery. Disaster recovery is always a fun conversation as you know, so many nuances and moving parts. But yeah, that's what Opti9 does.

I think, you know, just to talk about sort of managed services and outsourcing and maybe coming back a little bit about the digital workspaces. What I've noticed is, as time goes on and as folks are using more of these SaaS platforms and platform as a service and clouds, you know, the, complexity of the it landscape of an organisation is constantly increasing.

One of the roles of it leaders these days needs to be to manage the complexity and reduce the complexity sprawl. And a lot of them don't even realise that, but low hanging fruit to managing that is, look at the stuff that, you know, it's like, is not terribly valuable. And outsource it, you know, disaster recovery and backups probably the best example of like, Hey, let me just jettison this.

Let me take a little bit of burden off my team because it's not production, right? It's responsive to production. And now you can hold a party accountable to SLA instead of managing it. So that's my, that's my speed.

Ryan Purvis: Yeah. And I'm curious about a few things. So if we had an environment, say Azure and AWS, I mean, you mentioned AWS, do you do Azure as well and Google Cloud or just...

Sagi Brody: AWS is our primary focus from a public cloud perspective.

We do do some services with Azure, but, you really have to go down and look at the table, you know, AWS full service.

For instance, with AWS, we're doing disaster recovery for cloud native AWS workloads. So if you have an application, you know, we will replicate it and bring it up in another AWS region.

Ryan Purvis: Okay. And that was my other question is, so you're, you're doing the DR, would you then split up the environment you need in another location automatically there's some level of automation that you've taken over?

Sagi Brody: Yeah. So, we're doing holistic DR. And so if your environment is like half AWS, half in a data center, we're going to do all of that.

If it's AWS, obviously it's to another AWS, region. If it's, non AWS, like if you have a VMware cluster, physical servers, it's going to our own hardware, our own cloud, our own bare metal in different locations. The replication is the easy part. It's the, it's really around how are your users going to consume, the applications in the same way they did when it was at production, that's really a network question. It is an application question. Going back to all the platforms that are integrated, right? Like, let's say your application is integrated to salesforce or workday or whatever, you know, how do you test it? If you bring up your application and you log in and start making changes, are you poisoning your production data sitting in salesforce?

That's also a partially a networking challenge. And now we have to build separate runbooks for testing and partial failover full failover. So for some reason, people think when they think disaster recovery, they think of replicating data. I mean, that is the foundation of it, there's really good tooling out there, but where we provide value is all of the above is wrapping, the services, you know, taking ownership of the failover, owning the failback, owning the testing, the network strategy, you know, your security, whatever you're doing for security of production, it needs to be just as good or better at the DR. So.

Ryan Purvis: Yeah, because I'm thinking about a few things you, and when you say networking, I'm thinking about DNS changes, you might have to make or, APIs, it may have to change.

Sagi Brody: well, I'll tell you that there's some other, you know, sort of technologies that are out there that we have nothing to do with, but are very creative to what we're talking about here, for instance, and actually going back to digital workspace work from home.

SD WAN, which, you know, I'm sure you're familiar with, if an organisation is using SD WAN for their corporate WAN, a lot of people don't realise it, but that is very accretive to disaster recovery, because now we can build policies for, let's say, your DR scenario, where your organisation sees this application Living at the DR site instead of production.

And we can just enable a policy. DNS changes, route injections, BGP, you know, all that stuff. The old way, the dirty way. Software defined networking can really help here. Oh, there's other platforms like network as a service platforms, like, the likes of mega port or packet fabric or. Those are cool too, because now we can take a physical, connection like a cross connect to, an MPLS vendor or cross connect to a cloud. And we can actually shift it over from a production site to a DR site the same way we do workloads.

So we don't necessarily have to buy another link for every one of our connections and that's just so that's like super cool because you get a secondary connection. Like let's say you're connected to I don't know yet. You have your financial company of a bloomberg feed. Now you're like, well, we need one at the DR site.

All right, you order another one. You're paying double. You're managing and by the way, you don't know that it stopped working six months ago until you go to failover or test it because it's not, part of your workflow. And so there are cool software networking platforms that can like solve all these things that we just assumed we know we're required.

You know, we needed to go that route.

Ryan Purvis: Yeah. I'm trying to remember, I think Bluemoog is about 10 grand a month for a basic package. So entry level. So if you're paying for two, that's about 20, you know, obviously 20 grand a month or whatever it is. Yeah. And, I mean, we, I'm trying to think of all the DRF testing we used to do.

And often you'd find that you're paying for something that's been offline for, for weeks.

Sagi Brody: I mean, there's some cool things. I mean, also if you have a proper DR set up with the proper runbooks, you can use it for your security testing. You can use it pen testing, not, you know, not be intrusive to production.

Ryan Purvis: Yeah. And so salvation, that's also what I'm quite interested in.

Sagi Brody: Cyviation.

Ryan Purvis: Cyviation. So how does that actually work then?

Sagi Brody: Very cool company, they are focused on cyber security for physical aircraft. So if you think about that, what are the attack vectors to attack a physical aircraft?

Well, you have radio frequency, which was, you know, radio frequency. You have, supply chain, and you have, really trusted vendors. So, radio frequency is, you know, these aircraft, you know, will, unfortunately, any signal that, is powerful enough to reach them, they will accept as truth.

There is no authentication and there's no encryption, right? And actually a few months ago, there was, 20 events that occurred in Europe where, GPS was, spoofed. Which was a theoretical thing, or a nation state only thing. This GPS jamming has been known for a long time, but spoofing the actual signal similar to how you might spoof an IP packet was something that like only countries do.

So we've got 20 planes in November, 787s, 777s, Gulfstreams, Airbuses, everything. And they all thought they were about 80 nautical miles off from where they actually were. And it caused the cascading failure because there were other systems that took inputs from onboard navigational systems. And when the GPS provided an alternate, it confused everything and the entire navigation systems went down.

Essentially, they had to call air traffic and say, where are we and where, what direction should we point? So, that's super scary. And it's actually happening now. And then. Supply chain is, you know, when these planes go in for maintenance in different places, the vendors who are, you know, the people who are going on the planes, who are plugging in their laptops, those vendors are not for any cyber security diligence.

And if you can connect a device to these avionics networks, I mean, you're talking about vulnerabilities from like 20 years ago, like telnet is open. Here's the IP default login and password. We can change. I mean, we can do real, they can do really nasty things. Set off time bombs. I mean, even in the cabin network, you can turn off the plumbing.

So the bathrooms don't work. You can set off a fire suppression, a fire alarm. Like this is right now, this is like security by obscurity, but, Yeah, it's changing. In fact, IASA, in Europe, it has, aircraft cybersecurity regulation going live next year.

Ryan Purvis: Oh, wow. Okay. I was wondering if something was coming through regulation wise. Because we did, we had the same thing in shipping, where they were basically, I can't remember what the name of the navigation component is, but they were spoofing the location of vessels as well.

And then you got this issue where, they're trying to pilot the vessel in, which obviously is not moving at more than 20 knots or 25 knots at the time. But because they're flying the pilot in to come and pilot the vessel in and they can't find that vessel, the cascading effect is they start to block up route in because they can't find the vessels because they've been spoofed.

But, yeah, it's frightening how these, some of these components are so, old and left to be old because the cost of replacing or upgrading them is seen as too expensive, but the actual risk is, you know, significantly higher, than the person assumes it is.

Sagi Brody: I find it also, I find the old stuff to be risky. I find the super new stuff to be risky too. Like, Paris, the upcoming Paris Olympics, they're going to have these, electric vertical takeoff and landing. Essentially like just, you know, human sized drones, which will fly some of the athletes to and from the different venues.

Ryan Purvis: Oh reallyy? I didn't know about that. Yeah. Okay.

Sagi Brody: Yeah. There's this new wave of electric vertical takeoff and landing, you know, air taxis that are coming. There's a bunch of them out there. I actually saw one demo at a, show not too long ago. And these will be piloted, but you know, the idea is soon to be automated.

But now in the flip side of the old stuff is this super highly connected, highly integrated vehicles. And you know, what does that look like from a cyber perspective and who. You know who owns holistic security for those platforms? Even like commercial airlines who owns holistic security You know, is it is it the OEM?

Is it the maintenance companies? And commercial operators they have they spend a lot of money on cyber security. They're very big socks and teams. They spend millions of dollars on threat intelligence every year. Ironically enough, they have, those traditional cyber security teams have no visibility into their most critical assets, the airplanes, right?

So, Cyviation is trying to be the bridge between the aircraft and those existing cyber assets.

Ryan Purvis: Yeah. Politics and regulations and the gaps in between. I mean, I'm wondering from an insurance point of view, if the insurer, who the insurers hold liable, do they hold like Boeing or Airbus liable to a certain point?

And then the actual, you know, British Airways, American Airlines, whoever it is. The next piece of it, because between the two of them, there's a liability and almost Boeing has to take all the third party contractors underneath that liability. Because they're the ground.

Sagi Brody: I mean, in the case that a, you know, a maintenance company goes on a plane and connects a laptop and that laptop has a ransomware strain that was designed to look for an avionic component.

And once connected, it uploads its aircraft ransomware. You know, it certainly wouldn't be the OEM. And this is a really good point because just go talking about cloud and cybersecurity in general, there's all these horrible assumptions. Like, you know, for me, back when I was, doing the hosting thing, it would be WordPress, right?

I don't know how familiar you, you are with WordPress.

Ryan Purvis: Yeah, no, no. Pretty well, yep.

Sagi Brody: Yeah, I mean, like, it's notorious for getting hacked, right? And yeah, I remember getting all these calls like, oh, my web, like as a hosting company, my website is hacked. You guys screwed up. Why didn't you catch it? And like, well, that's, we don't do that.

Like, that's not a responsibility. Well, who does that? I don't know. Call your web designer called web designer. My website got hacked when, you know, what'd you do? Like, well, I just designed your website. I handed you the keys. So I think it's the same thing with the airline operators. Like if you, as an operator of a business, If you don't know who is really responsible for your holistic cyber security, guess what?

It's you, you know, it's you and people don't, a lot of people don't realise that until after something bad happens, unfortunately.

Ryan Purvis: Yeah, I mean, I think about WordPress, I mean, it's great from a third party developer, there's always a plugin driven thing that's been put in. But often there's been no security by design, from the get go.

It's always, when something happens, they've, they kind of spoon it back in again. Which usually means that there's more holes than there were before. They just closed one hole and opened up five others. Yeah.

sort of sprawl.

Sagi Brody: All of this is better than it was years ago, and now obviously there's more platforms that manage it and all that. But I think it's just a really good example,and that t example repeats itself, you know, just from an assumption and ownership and accountability perspective.

Ryan Purvis: Yeah, great. And then you're on a couple boards as well. I see you involved in OpenXI. Yep, which I've never heard of before. So I'm always curious about different associations.

Sagi Brody: Yeah, that's a good one. I was involved. I'm not involved there anymore, but I have a ton of friends who are still involved.

You know, I did my time and kind of wanted to give some space for others.Open-IX is a really cool one. You know, the idea was that you had operators working at companies like Netflix and Akamai, and, you know, hyperscalers and just different online companies and who were deploying digital infrastructure and data centers, you know, big data center consumers, big network consumers. And, they just kind of got sick and tired of data center operators and peering exchanges, network peering points, just sort of, you know, messing up and not being transparent with pricing and making mistakes.

And they came together and said, you know, we have enough clout. Let's, let's build our own standard for data centers. And let's build our own standard for peering. And let's, get some of the vendors to adopt the standards so that we have better assurances. But let's build the standard from an operational perspective.

All of our battle scars from being in the trenches and dealing with downtime and dealing with. Issues. And so they did that. and it's an open really like, I think of like an open source data center standard, it's an ANSI accredited organisation, which is cool. And, they've done some, some really good things.

Honestly, you know, like I ran a data center and we were Open-IX certified and, you know, when, when people come and take a tour of your data center, want to use you, you know, they come and they want to check all the boxes on compliances and that. And I'd say, Hey, we're also Open-IX certified.

And you ever heard of that? No, I never heard of it. And tell them a story. And it shows us to be a cool full vendor. It shows us to be a vendor that for openness and transparency on the Internet. I mean, who's going to say no to that? You know, so I think indirectly, It's a cool badge and it just represents something, you know, that I think is meaningful.

Ryan Purvis:

I have a friend of mine. He, uh, looks after data center here, local to where I am, and he was telling me about one of his clients came in and they're buying AI specific servers. And I wondered if that made a difference to what you guys do in the sense of, if they're going to buy a whole bunch of racks and put these special servers in, like large language models or any of those sorts of things, would you guys do backup and DR for those things?

And I mean, are they huge?

Sagi Brody: Yeah, I mean, absolutely. You know, that's going to be more unstructured data. People that are running those types of systems, if they're doing it the right way, they're probably using Kubernetes and containers and rebuilding a system like that after something goes down is going to be easier than like a traditional web application.

But I mean, would Opti9 do disaster recovery for something like that? I mean, it's going to be more customised. they probably would, but I would say an operator, someone who's running that is, you know, they're probably so deep into their deployment and CICD that they're probably going to do it themselves.

But I, will say, what you're just talking about there, that's changing the entire data center world. I mean, the power capacities, all of the data centers are, I mean, it's a goldmine for the data center industry. The density, the power density is required. I mean, all the new facilities being built with liquid cooling. It is a game changer and, it's a good time to be a data center operator.

Ryan Purvis: Yeah. I look, I mean, the numbers he was talking about, the amount of power they wanted, I can't remember the numbers now, but I mean, it was astronomical compared to normal, like a Salesforce, like say, you know, kind of line of business application being deployed with a couple of servers, a couple, you know, a couple of racks, maybe they almost were taking a whole part of the facility.

Sagi Brody: Oh, yeah. I mean, when I would run my facility, you know, most of our cabinets were running on average, maybe 3 to 4 kilowatts. you know, back then, high density was considered 10 to 20, you know, maybe that would be 10, maybe 15, when I was at a data center conference not too long ago, what people are talking about is 50 to 100 kilowatts per rack.

You know, so you're talking about almost almost 100 times increase and what happens is the limiting factor becomes like they were talking about the limiting factor being like the transmission lines from the power station. It's just crazy.

Ryan Purvis: Yeah, no, it's a whole new world. It's very interesting to see what will happen with that.

I'm pretty good from a questions point of view. Is there any way anything else you want to add or do you want people just to come and look at your website or LinkedIn profile?

Sagi Brody: Yeah, sure. You can find my personal website at, at 10 forward. ai. you can reach Opti9 at opti9tech. com. LinkedIn is probably where I'm most active social wise.

So feel free to reach out.

Ryan Purvis: Well, it's been great chatting with you and I appreciate your time.

Sagi Brody: Great chatting with you too. Thanks Ryan.

Ryan Purvis: Talk to you soon. All the best.

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