Workplace Resilience and Wellbeing

Ryan Purvis  0:00  
Hello, and welcome to the digital workspace works podcast. I'm Ryan Purvis, your host supported by producer Heather Bicknell. In this series, you'll hear stories and opinions from experts in the field story from the frontlines, the problems they face and how they solve them. The years they're focused on from technology, people and processes to the approaches they took, they will help you to get to the scripts for the digital workspace inner workings.

Super, so don't introduce yourself to, to the audience.

Diane Nield  0:34  
Yeah, sure. Um, hi, everyone. My name is Diane Nils, I'm a director of lead coach manage, which is a consultancy, we specialize in training and developing future leaders. And also, I'm a master practitioner for well being in the workplace, which has is an area that is very busy at the moment.

Ryan Purvis  1:03  
I'm sure, I'm sure that now that the government has provided at least the UK Government provide a bit of a plan to exit I think there's a little bit more relaxation, but a little bit more comfort around some level of certainty.

Diane Nield  1:17  
Yes. And I think that's that's been the you know, the buzzword really Ryan for the last 12 months, the uncertainty that people are faced. But, you know, as we start to come out, obviously, we're coming out of lockdown here in the UK. And this is kind of the third time it's happened. There's, there's still we're pinning lots of hopes on the vaccination program. And, you know, a spring is now coming through the first of March day, moods are definitely lifted. But there are still a massive amount of people that, you know, we're continuing to work from home, lots of pressure, lots of furloughed people, uncertainty of jobs, etc. So, it's a telling time, it really is.

Ryan Purvis  2:05  
Yeah, you mentioned the photo scheme and that sort of stuff. But I think it's not so much people wanting to be paid to serve homeless more than the purpose of work that they're looking for.

Diane Nield  2:16  
It is you're absolutely right. And there's there's a recent study actually by Westfield health, that that has looked at three different cohorts of those that have continued to work those that are furloughed, and those that are working from home. And the there's a lot of commonalities between the three groups in that there's, they all are worried about the future of their jobs, that they're looking at people. So those that have continued to work. So sort of like manufacturing, etc, plants that we work with, who who have to go in and there's lots of COVID testing going on all the time, then people who are working from home and saying, all you get all this time with your family, we don't we've worked every day because obviously we've got to produce the food that lots of people were initially hoarding, and, and, and they're sort of looking enviously at those working from home, those working from home are saying, well, at least you get out and you're able to stay purpose. Whereas we stare at a computer, eight to 10 hours a day tend to they tend to do more work because they want to be seen that they're working as well. And, and then you've got the furloughed people that some of them have said they're living their best lives because they've really tuned into exercise, etc. But many have lost that sense of purpose completely. And that that's where you then start to get into negative thinking mood definitely are pulled down, losing routine, etc. And actually seeing when, what is my future so so there's an awful lot of people that I spent do a one to one coaching with that are really struggling really strongly.

Ryan Purvis  4:18  
Yeah, I can only imagine. I mean, you know, when I look back, we were in the UK, like near the first lockdown, as you mentioned, and we went through the lockdown in November before we flew out to South Africa. And we had a small lockdown here. That didn't change our lives too much. But been going now we're a year down the road almost a year in three weeks time. You know, I don't know what I don't know how we would have coped with another lockdown with with two kids and no, kids are young. But you know, being able to work anywhere in the world has definitely changed the game of it. That I spoke to two other people today that also took the opportunity to get out for December, I went to Greece and decided to one place in Greece in one place in Cyprus where the risk has been a lot lower. And they said, that's that's the new normal for them. They don't have to be in office every day. So for them, it's a psychological safety thing. And a family safety thing.

Diane Nield  5:21  
Yeah. And that's, that's going to be the difference, you know, that. I was on a call with some leaders last week. And there's an awful lot of talk, you know, things like absenteeism and presenteeism are seen as all time lows at the moment because everyone's home. And I don't know whether you've noticed that hardly anybody's got a cold at the moment either, because we're socially distancing well, which is great. But, you know, that ability to work anywhere in the world, and I think that's what's changed about our business as well. And in in lockdown, one, we could, you know, the business could have just gone down, because we, we were going out to see our clients, maybe mainly UK based clients. We're also providers, in Greater Manchester for business growth, for some doing a lot of training externally for them. And so we're out of our homes all the time seeing clients. So we had to sit back and say, right, well, how do we look at this? What what, how can we actually still keep this business going? So it was it was turning to the conferencing that enabled us to do that. And going back to your point of going to Greece and Cyprus. As soon as locked down open each time. My husband and I, we were straight on, you know, outside holiday to Portugal and in Tenerife, just before Christmas, and wherever we could go because we can still run our business from wherever we are. So got a decent Wi Fi code, we can still run it.

Ryan Purvis  7:04  
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that's that is so cool. That you could do that. Because, you know, if you look at the the most of most roles, I actually remote face roles to think about which means from a business point of view, you can actually hire anyone. That's an A plus or two plus or minus two hours timezone. Yeah. Yeah, you know, yourself. You know, it's unfortunately, those, as you mentioned, the sort of frontline operators, you know, a hairdresser a cooker cleaner, they're the people that you know, their job solicit at that location.

Diane Nield  7:41  
And that's really telling for, especially as ladies that I was looking at a photograph of me the other day, 12 months ago, and my hair is so much longer now. So I've even got my husband doing my roots at the moment, you know, things are really changed in our home, and but he won't let me cut his hair, which I'm quite disappointed. And

Ryan Purvis  8:06  
I can understand that. A couple a couple of weeks. I got to about the you know, during lockdown one, I think it was about six weeks before I left my wife cut my I don't have a lot of hair to work with. So protected. You mentioned something and I wanted to get back to it. Oh, the the being being always available. Yeah, aspect to working now because you're at home. I mean, I went through a guilt, initially where I felt like I had to be working all the time. Because you'd pop out to help the kids downstairs or you'd be cooking dinner we did. what's called when they deliver the food in the box and you cook it's

Unknown Speaker  8:47  
Oh yeah.

Ryan Purvis  8:49  
It was called hellofresh. Yes, hello fresh. So you know, I used to pop down at five o'clock and cook that meal. But, you know, other guys would still be working to while you cook and you're still getting messages and teams or whatever it is to carry on conversations about stuff. And I had to put boundaries in. Especially now that I'm in South Africa is two hours ahead. You know, I've got to balance that as well. Have you seen much of that in your research or your discussions with other customers,

Diane Nield  9:16  
and I think boundaries. So So the area that we work in is called ra that stands for workplace resilience and well being. And it looks at what we call the five pillars of resilience. One of the pillars is energy. And when you about how you build your energy, we look at sort of, you know the physical aspect, nutrition, hydration, etc. that a big component of energy is boundary setting. So we have long conversations with individuals and teams around what boundaries are you going to put in place and when we when we look at a team or a whole organization and one of the pressure points in that system is workload. And not being able to step away from the computer. It's about taking ownership of that and sort of saying, How can we change that? What boundaries can we set there is if we were in an office, would we behave the same way, what isn't as behave in this way that we feel that we can be available to everybody all the time. So it's about changing that mindset, and communicating with your colleagues that they will see that change, as well. Because just put a boundary in to say that, you know, I won't be replying to emails between, I don't know, 12, and one, so I can sit down, have lunch with my family. And people, some people might not like to see that, because they'd been used to seeing you at that time when they've wanted it or put in times in your calendar, when you've not really controlled that. So it's very important to when you do set your boundaries that you inform and communicate out while you're doing it. And people are very accepting of it, you know, working with big global pharmaceutical company at the moment, and they are absolutely encouraging their people to sell a say, take time out, go for a walk, leave the screen for every, every 20 minutes, walk away from the screen, check your eyes, because you know you can become you can get to the point where you're finding more work, to showcase that you're still there to everyone. And you don't want to do that. And going back to your point about psychological safety, so I'm doing their diploma in psychological safety at the moment. And there's an awful lot of case studies that we're looking at through this is through Professor Amy Edmondson is work from Harvard. And and you know, a lot of the time is that people don't speak up, people don't feel that they have a safe environment to speak up about and say how can we change things because they may be judged? They may feel that they might be judged or put all set back for saying, We this needs to change. So they just kept on on that cycle.

Ryan Purvis  12:14  
Yeah, it's interesting how you, I mean, so. So in the UK, I worked one way when I got to South Africa is slightly changed. And most of the the reason for the change was a two hour difference. So because I was that we were two hours ahead. I meant it. So in the UK, I had an hour booked out for my sort of brain work. Yes, you know, because what was happening, if you didn't book something in your diary, someone else would look something in your diary. Because you'll end up with, you know, lighter day, it's just back to back calls the whole day. So I used to have a slot booked out, which was my one hour of fitness would be time with kids, or whatever it is, there'll be a break from screens and all that sort of stuff. And then we came here, so I cancelled that slot, I said, Well, I don't need that slot, because I've got all this time in the morning to go to gym and stuff, and all that sort of thing. But after about two weeks of not having that break entity back to back calls, you get to sort of three o'clock in the afternoon, and you've done nothing to some calls and you and you mentally exhausted because all you've done is be switched on the whole time. So I've had to put it back in again. Now, obviously, every so often, I have have a call that goes in there. But at least it gives me some sort of buffer before the end of the day. Yeah, so you can actually do something besides just talk to people on the phone all the time.

Diane Nield  13:35  
Absolutely. And, and sometimes, you know, there's a few leaders now that are actually putting on their, on the bottom of their email their signatures. And sometimes you might want to speak to me on the telephone rather than, you know, we've got into this habit of having virtual conferencing all the time. And that, that, you know, you have to be so attentive in that point. That is, if you're in a if you're in a boardroom, and people were in conversation, you'd be looking elsewhere, you'd be you know, drinking water, you'd be you'd be writing things down. You're not constantly staring at a screen as we are now. And that's the exhaustion comes in. But so it's I'm so pleased to hear you've gone back to putting that time back in your calendar. Because you were you know, you made some really fantastic changes. First time we spoke I was really impressed how you'd recognize that you needed to take that time to step back, recoup, recalibrate and go again. And that's what it's all about.

Ryan Purvis  14:45  
Yeah, so I think they wish to go through some of that. So we did. We met on the verge of non execs. Yeah. Yeah. And then we sort of chatted and I did the survey, the var w survey. And if you were to get some back onto that first and then we can talk about sort of what came out of that.

Diane Nield  15:03  
Yeah, yeah. So the, the the RA program is developed by a group of mental health professionals and London based mental health professionals, and it brings in cognitive behaviors, positive and cognitive psychology. And it's a psychometric questionnaire that you complete, it takes about 15 minutes, you know, it's a nice, it's a link I send you. But what I find from it is, it not only gives me real insight into an individual, it's a great platform for conversation. And there are many people that sort of dial into coaching sessions, and are unsure of how much they can share or want to share. Whereas this gives us that platform for those conversations, we talk about energy levels, it's split into five pillars of resilience. So its energy, future focus, inner drive, flexible thinking and strong relationships. And we go through each one of those pillars and looking at not just how you score, because that's kind of that moment in time that you made that you did the report, you may feel very differently when we speak. But it's also you know, where you want to be what what you can actually do to change. And, you know, there's some great hints and tips that we can share with you. And incidentally, on that note, starting today, on LinkedIn, we're putting posts every single day of people that we've worked with, that have gone on a bite size video with my colleague, Sue, who are going to share some of the hints and tips that they've put in over the last 12 months. And walking things to be like the new black really, it's kind of everyone's got into walking and that you know, when you walk, you've got that visual stimulation you're taking in bitten Indy, you know, a lot of people walk and talk on the phone, I certainly listen to audiobooks. So that's my way of checking out and having that hour and a half time for me. You know, and that self care piece, I think people have learned try to be a bit more selfish with their time. And that is working really well for people, at least they get outside.

Ryan Purvis  17:29  
Yeah, and I don't think it's selfish. I think it's, it's self care. You know, you're just a vitamin D, I mean, I use an app now. So I can measure my vitamin D while I'm walking. And I obviously take a tablet as well. So I measure those that as well. Like You I listen to something so see the podcasts or, or that I do my calls that I need to do. There it is it is to get out. And I think you need you need the time also for your brain to not be absorbing information, but also the Wonder button and solve problems that you don't if you're just back to back over time, you don't get a chance to do that.

Diane Nield  18:04  
You're absolutely right. And and allow your, your creative part of your brain to kick in as well. You know, like you're saying problem solving. And sometimes you're walking along and say why didn't I look at it from that perspective? before? Because actually, you've allowed your brain to be more creative. And you've got that freedom then rather than when you're really pushing yourself sometimes it just doesn't come. Yeah. But yeah, that that time out for me. Is is fantastic. And and there's a real you know, there's there's a fantastic analogy. Enzo Ferrari was asked many years ago, why his cars were winning Grand Prix is when when obviously Ferrari was doing very well. And and he said, you know, and they said what have you changed in the car is at the aerodynamics, whatever. And he said, the essential part of the car is brakes. Because the track has corners, so you've got to learn to brake. And then again, and that's really my motto in life. It's kind of making sure you build those breaks in to be able again

Ryan Purvis  19:21  
I think you're spot on. I mean, you know with with what we're doing now, with this digital way of working it's too easy to not have have those gaps. You don't have the you don't have the commute anymore. You don't have the you know to go get lunch because you're at the office and you need somebody to eat so you can walk outside. You know you're at home you might shoot downstairs to get something to eat up the fridge but then you're back up and you know in three minutes. Yes, you need

Diane Nield  19:49  
and you got you got a danger. You're probably doing about 500 steps in a day. Then.

Ryan Purvis  19:57  
I stuck it I've still kept my target of have 12 and a half 1000 a day. So

Diane Nield  20:03  
that's a very admirable target that is, wow. Well,

Ryan Purvis  20:08  
ironically, in the UK, it used to be 15,000. But we walk less here. Because you drive everywhere. And it's just one of those. So target half is still the target. Ideally 15

Diane Nield  20:22  
Wow, well, good on you. Yeah, some, some days I leave, leave my office. And when I've got, you know, we've got back to back workshops on and so it's unavoidable on some days, but I've probably done 1000 steps in the day. And then I'm sitting there thinking, God, why am I feeling so lethargic? Why? You know, so it's so important as well, that you know, when you're online, that is to hydrate? Hi. I say, Well, if you don't take anything away from our conversation, just drink more water. Your brain is 80% water. And you'll lose about two and a half liters a day, just by existing perspiring water vapor, urine, you know that that's your lose per day. So most of us are walking around dehydrated, and we expect our brains to function. Just like, you know, automatic. Come on what's going on today? Why? Why am I suddenly got a brain fog? perhaps maybe have a glass of water and see if it makes it?

Ryan Purvis  21:29  
Yeah, I got into habits. And the reason I know it works. So every morning, I have two glasses of water. And I can almost feel and drink it. And there's my reading up as you drink it can feel as you go through your system. And then you know, you haven't had enough. And then if I had it later in the day that I know that what she's done, let it go too long. So yeah, I think you're spot on day was go back to the raw report. I mean, are you doing that now as a as a common thing with your customers? Yeah, have you got other tools you use as well?

Diane Nield  22:03  
It's true, it's, it's pretty much 8% of our business now. And in the leadership development, we'll do other questionnaires, you know, with the like behavioral styles, learning styles, communication skills, all that sort of stuff that that roar is has become so important. You know, and companies are now recognizing this, you know, for every one pound that's invested in, in this area of and we work in sort of the resilience not mental ill health, we're building resilient teams, and resilient rituals. If you invest a pound on average, again, in about just over five pounds back, and some and that's the latest Deloitte data. So they they analyze this every two years. And some some organizations have really changed their color culture and that of psychological safety. They're seeing about 11 to 15 pounds return on for every one pound invested. But it opens so many doors for people in that they're able to speak more frankly, about how they feel. And that some are really struggling to navigate through problems. And so we're giving them different tools on how to look at that in a different way. And how to frame things better. So it comes across more positive, how their brain works, what hormones and neurotransmitters they're releasing when they are under stress. And when that again, on the other side, when they're relaxed, and they're feeling really chilled and and motivated what what hormones are being released then. So it's encouraging them to think about that mindset. And if you're framing things more positive, and thinking about when you're in a meeting about what went well, as opposed to what didn't go so well, you'll then start to see the mood change so much in the team? So that's really important.

Ryan Purvis  24:16  
are you measuring the mood somehow? I mean, are they dancing that through surveys beyond this or that to have coaching?

Diane Nield  24:23  
Well, what we tend to say is really once we've got a baseline raw report, then we'll we'll do one to one coaching with individuals and team workshops where they'll basically build a charter on how they're going to support each other. And then we'll say three months later, let's let's repeat that roll report and see, you know, what, how far you've come. And then let's look at with so we never work on all five pillars at the same time. Pick out if it's a team, a couple of pillars to work on, and then track and that measure and that's what I really like about roar is that you've got that outcome base. measurement that, that you can look at, incidentally, on the psychological safety course that amount at the moment, there's, there's a scan for that as well. So and psychological safety, you know, they go hand in hand for me. So scared

Ryan Purvis  25:20  
you mean a CAT scan or a functional?

Diane Nield  25:24  
It's a it's seven questions, and they can be done in five minutes. But it's all about the conversation, the team conversation why. And you know, psychological safety is Amy Edmondson talks a lot about teaming. It's about you know, Google's data over five years is project Aristotle, and they looked at how they can get the best team, what does the best team look like? And we might think that's the collection of the best brains, etc. But a lot of the time, it's about how people come together on a social aspect as well, how you get that opposites that attract and bounce off of each other and debate to get really, really good ideas coming through. So you know, that that scan that basically looks out how that team works together? And and do they feel that they can actually say things without being judged? Or walked over? etc? So yeah, it's a very interesting field. And I think, you know, that's, that's the next big thing that companies are really looking at is psychological safety.

Ryan Purvis  26:37  
I can only imagine, I mean, one of the others, like, the common sort of questions is now that we're going out of lockdowns and guides, are you ever gonna be vaccinated on the planet for the next two to three years? Do we go back to the office, though? Or are we gonna stay in this hybrid bottle? Or we're going to, you know, stay remote working?

Unknown Speaker  26:56  
Yeah, I think it's a good question.

Diane Nield  26:59  
Yeah, it's a good question. Because I think, moving forward, like you say, people have found, I mean, Sue, Sue, my business partner, and I will definitely stay online. Because we're working with global teams. Now we work with China, Japan, the we've got the USA this afternoon. Traveling any with everywhere, which, you know, in our previous lives, we worked in the pharmaceutical industry, and every week, you're traveling somewhere. And actually, this medium makes the world a smaller place, you don't get to see it. Which is the downside, but you actually get to build your business and reach out to much more people with this medium.

Ryan Purvis  27:46  
Yeah, no, you're so right. Because the other question is, you know, if you look at the high streets and the malls, you know, people have gotten so used to online shopping, because they've had to get used to it, you know, Will those survive? And I think, I think both will survive both store, you know, going back to work and, and going back to the malls, because they'll always be someone that wants to still do it face to face. Now, it's not the only way. And I think it's just balanced out naturally.

Diane Nield  28:11  
I agree with you. And I think you know, women, women, especially. Yeah, there's a lot of men that that you know, women are known for shopping. We meet our friends, we go for lunch, we have a great day out shopping, lots of conversation. If we just did that online, there's there's that element missing. And I am somebody and I'm very kinesthetic. And I like to feel close, to be able to try it on see how it looks and you know, ask other people how it looks. And we're losing a lot of that interaction. So I do hope that we will have everything online still, because I think that that just that getting yourself ready going out meeting friends, that whole social interaction. Uh, you know, I missed that terribly.

Ryan Purvis  29:04  
Yeah, so a great home in a doctor's office about the hope that we through this, we realize the value of other people, shops, shop shelves that are full, it all the kinds of things that that we've all found find it and send it. I think that's what we needed to reset. In that sense. It was too much of a rat race, everyone just trying to go faster and become more robotic. And if anyone was had to be forced to slow down, yes. And to appreciate what you can do, which you can't do anymore, that you could do that of grunt you could have done before.

Diane Nield  29:43  
Absolutely. And you know, a lot of people now are building or doing gratitude journals and things like that. It's been it's been grateful for what you have, which you know, going back to the pandemic again, but there's a there's a a really, really great tip that Martin Seligman is the father of positive psychology. So he, he was the one that basically founded this write down three things each day that, that I've gone well for you or that you're grateful for. And if you do that, you know, by the end of the year, you've got over 1000, things that you have found have gone well for you, or, or you're grateful for. And, and that's fantastic to reflect back on. And going back to you know, how you change your mood and things, just looking at those things that have gone well in the day. And it may be you know, the sun was out today. So actually, I went for a walk. And I've just been down the road looking for a cat and my cat following me down the road. And that actually made me happy because it's like, the cat. But that, you know, those little things we need to remember when people say, Gosh, all I do is work and I've got nothing else. Just think about what's gone well for you that day, you will find three things. And his data absolutely proved it. You know, he was working with 50 of the most depressed people whose depression scores meant that there were so low, they struggled to get out of bed. And just seeing that in one week, right in three things down each day. Actually, when he tested them at the end of the week that depression scores have come right down, and their happiness scores have gone right up. Because they were just changing their mindset.

Ryan Purvis  31:40  
Now, I can only imagine. I mean, it's something I used to do, I'll be honest, I don't do it as much in the sense of writing it down. But I kind of live my day through pictures. So I always try to take three or four pictures a day, specifically with the kids doing something. And then that goes into a journal, which, you know, like I got reminded today of 11 pictures that we took the other day. So, you know, that's that way. But if you definitely agree that it works, I just want you to find what works for you.

Unknown Speaker  32:08  
Yeah, yeah.

Ryan Purvis  32:11  
Yeah. Cool. So what do you see the future? Like, then? I mean, what do you see? How do you think work will go? How do you think digital working will go?

Diane Nield  32:19  
I think I think there will be a mixture of those that office based and, you know, digital, I think is here to stay. Incidentally, you know, by in my previous roles, that even though you know, there was travel involved to different countries, I managed teams who all worked in all home base we went office based. So you know, these virtual conferencing mediums have we've used them for 20 years. And you know, that that they will always continue. Whether they number big office buildings will continue. I'm unsure. I would hate to see not being brought back to life. It seems such a shame. But I think there will be the combination of the two and and a lot of companies are, you know, certainly at the beginning of lockdown one said, You're not going back into the office this year. Here's the computer stuff, here's everything that you'll need to work from home. And, and a lot of a lot of organizations have been very, very supportive of their employees, especially those that are homeschooling too, because that's been so tough.

Ryan Purvis  33:36  
Yeah. Yeah. Whenever you have something that we were worried about the head speed pins, we took the flat out, not that our kids were old enough to be homeschooled, but just just to have the school available. And, you know, places for kids to go every day. So, okay. And then what's your your setup like at home? I mean, are you are you now building the dedicated office with a standing desk and all that sort of stuff for you?

Diane Nield  34:02  
We talked about standing desks and doing that. And I'm still I'm still deliberating over that because I did see some data the other day that that said, Actually, you use for standing desk, but it's not. The it's not the data isn't that strong? To say don't sit, I think what it what we've, what the data did say was, what we've got is now big, easy back office chairs. So we tend to slouch. Not great for our skeleton. But I do find myself standing up quite regularly since I talked to you about your standing desk and, and it's hard for me to present. If I was in, in a in a room in an office, I would always be standing up to present. So it's strange. I find it difficult. Maybe it's because I just haven't got the equipment set up in a way that allows me to do that just now. But I'm still I'm still thinking about doing that, because I think I'd feel more grounded as well.

Ryan Purvis  35:14  
Depends on what you're doing. So I like to say this for talking, so like this and, and that, but if I'm doing something that requires like, like, if I'm studying or I'm writing a document, so in my life, so for that, I think there must be something, there must be something in your brain that says, because you're sitting, you could focus more on it. This needs to be more away or something. I don't know. How I do.

Diane Nield  35:38  
Yeah, so I've got an office at home, where I've always had this office, and my husband also works from home now. So he's, we've converted the bedroom for him. So he's upstairs and I and I do get the shout down. Can you put some more paper in the photocopier please? unpopular basis from him that? Yeah, we seem to coordinate quite well, and are respectful of each other, especially we're on if we're on conferences as well. Yeah, it works well for us. But I do, again, as Sue and I do are able to go into an office and we've done a presentation we did in September, it is a whole three day virtual conference for large organizations, all on Raw. So you know, over 100, people all had a raw report, and it was all aggregated up. So they got the whole organization view. And every day, we did videos to them. And because it was different time zones, it was a global conference. So we were online videos, live conference live breakouts. And that was enormous fun. We did it together sharing the screen together in the office, which was, which was really good. You get the energy from each other, then.

Unknown Speaker  37:02  
Yeah, how

Ryan Purvis  37:03  
long were the sessions.

Diane Nield  37:04  
And so we were on between, sort of 10 and two o'clock each day. Okay. We've done pre recordings as well, which they they got on demand, which was, which was good. Because we've got Australia dialing in, or dialing out as we say I'm late. Yeah,

Ryan Purvis  37:27  
yeah. Yeah. That's that. I mean, yeah, I think I think those those sort of eight hour workshops, days also gone. Thankfully. More, more, more focus, short, short periods. Yeah.

Diane Nield  37:40  
I think that the full day workshop, it's too much to ask of people to be fully in the in the moment all the time, it's just, you know, it's better to have these short, sharp bursts, and I feel much more energized from them.

Ryan Purvis  37:58  
Totally. And I think there's also that back back sort of, of what my kids doing, or what's happening downstairs in the house that I need to you know, so having the breaks also also helps. Great. So where can people get hold of if they want to get hold of you?

Diane Nield  38:14  
And yes, so the I, we have a website, www dot lead Coach manage.co.uk. So all one word. And that basically comes from the way we were trained. So when we both met, gosh, 25 years plus ago, working for GlaxoSmithKline. And we had the pleasure of being put in through so many qualifications and at the time, not really appreciating it, but very much appreciating it now. And leadership first, basically lead your people set that vision, get them to follow you coach them to be more autonomous and be creative, and then manage them when you need to. So that's why we're called the coach manage. And you obviously can find me on LinkedIn under Dyer nield and Twitter. Also Li coach manage.

Ryan Purvis  39:14  
I had just met just as you're saying that I realized as a book that I've wanted to recommend to which is turn the boat around to the stripper and

Diane Nield  39:20  
turn the ship around. Okay, turn

Ryan Purvis  39:22  
the ship around. David my cat is the is the author to submarine captain. And it's how he took his crew who were the worst in the Navy to be in one of the best in the Navy. But changing the one of the key things was changing that from a leader follower mentality to a leader leader mentality. Yeah. So leadership intent. As you were saying I was thinking I was actually not forget so with with a read

Diane Nield  39:50  
as it's written down, because you know, I enjoy the book.

Ryan Purvis  39:53  
Good stuff. Super. Well, thanks, Diane was good to catch up.

Diane Nield  39:58  
Thank you very much Ryan, please. A pleasure.

Ryan Purvis  40:04  
Thank you for listening today's episode here the big news, our producer editor. Thank you, Heather for your hard work for this episode. Please subscribe to the series and rate us on iTunes or the Google Play Store. Follow us on Twitter at the DW w podcast. The shownotes and transcripts will be available on the website WWW dot digital workspace that works. Please also visit our website www dot digital workspace that works and subscribe to our newsletter. And lastly, if you found this episode useful, please share with your friends or colleagues

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Ryan Purvis  0:00  
Hello, and welcome to the digital workspace works podcast. I'm Ryan Purvis, your host supported by producer Heather Bicknell. In this series, you'll hear stories and opinions from experts in the field story from the frontlines, the problems they face and how they solve them. The years they're focused on from technology, people and processes to the approaches they took, they will help you to get to the scripts for the digital workspace inner workings.

Super, so don't introduce yourself to, to the audience.

Diane Nield  0:34  
Yeah, sure. Um, hi, everyone. My name is Diane Nils, I'm a director of lead coach manage, which is a consultancy, we specialize in training and developing future leaders. And also, I'm a master practitioner for well being in the workplace, which has is an area that is very busy at the moment.

Ryan Purvis  1:03  
I'm sure, I'm sure that now that the government has provided at least the UK Government provide a bit of a plan to exit I think there's a little bit more relaxation, but a little bit more comfort around some level of certainty.

Diane Nield  1:17  
Yes. And I think that's that's been the you know, the buzzword really Ryan for the last 12 months, the uncertainty that people are faced. But, you know, as we start to come out, obviously, we're coming out of lockdown here in the UK. And this is kind of the third time it's happened. There's, there's still we're pinning lots of hopes on the vaccination program. And, you know, a spring is now coming through the first of March day, moods are definitely lifted. But there are still a massive amount of people that, you know, we're continuing to work from home, lots of pressure, lots of furloughed people, uncertainty of jobs, etc. So, it's a telling time, it really is.

Ryan Purvis  2:05  
Yeah, you mentioned the photo scheme and that sort of stuff. But I think it's not so much people wanting to be paid to serve homeless more than the purpose of work that they're looking for.

Diane Nield  2:16  
It is you're absolutely right. And there's there's a recent study actually by Westfield health, that that has looked at three different cohorts of those that have continued to work those that are furloughed, and those that are working from home. And the there's a lot of commonalities between the three groups in that there's, they all are worried about the future of their jobs, that they're looking at people. So those that have continued to work. So sort of like manufacturing, etc, plants that we work with, who who have to go in and there's lots of COVID testing going on all the time, then people who are working from home and saying, all you get all this time with your family, we don't we've worked every day because obviously we've got to produce the food that lots of people were initially hoarding, and, and, and they're sort of looking enviously at those working from home, those working from home are saying, well, at least you get out and you're able to stay purpose. Whereas we stare at a computer, eight to 10 hours a day tend to they tend to do more work because they want to be seen that they're working as well. And, and then you've got the furloughed people that some of them have said they're living their best lives because they've really tuned into exercise, etc. But many have lost that sense of purpose completely. And that that's where you then start to get into negative thinking mood definitely are pulled down, losing routine, etc. And actually seeing when, what is my future so so there's an awful lot of people that I spent do a one to one coaching with that are really struggling really strongly.

Ryan Purvis  4:18  
Yeah, I can only imagine. I mean, you know, when I look back, we were in the UK, like near the first lockdown, as you mentioned, and we went through the lockdown in November before we flew out to South Africa. And we had a small lockdown here. That didn't change our lives too much. But been going now we're a year down the road almost a year in three weeks time. You know, I don't know what I don't know how we would have coped with another lockdown with with two kids and no, kids are young. But you know, being able to work anywhere in the world has definitely changed the game of it. That I spoke to two other people today that also took the opportunity to get out for December, I went to Greece and decided to one place in Greece in one place in Cyprus where the risk has been a lot lower. And they said, that's that's the new normal for them. They don't have to be in office every day. So for them, it's a psychological safety thing. And a family safety thing.

Diane Nield  5:21  
Yeah. And that's, that's going to be the difference, you know, that. I was on a call with some leaders last week. And there's an awful lot of talk, you know, things like absenteeism and presenteeism are seen as all time lows at the moment because everyone's home. And I don't know whether you've noticed that hardly anybody's got a cold at the moment either, because we're socially distancing well, which is great. But, you know, that ability to work anywhere in the world, and I think that's what's changed about our business as well. And in in lockdown, one, we could, you know, the business could have just gone down, because we, we were going out to see our clients, maybe mainly UK based clients. We're also providers, in Greater Manchester for business growth, for some doing a lot of training externally for them. And so we're out of our homes all the time seeing clients. So we had to sit back and say, right, well, how do we look at this? What what, how can we actually still keep this business going? So it was it was turning to the conferencing that enabled us to do that. And going back to your point of going to Greece and Cyprus. As soon as locked down open each time. My husband and I, we were straight on, you know, outside holiday to Portugal and in Tenerife, just before Christmas, and wherever we could go because we can still run our business from wherever we are. So got a decent Wi Fi code, we can still run it.

Ryan Purvis  7:04  
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that's that is so cool. That you could do that. Because, you know, if you look at the the most of most roles, I actually remote face roles to think about which means from a business point of view, you can actually hire anyone. That's an A plus or two plus or minus two hours timezone. Yeah. Yeah, you know, yourself. You know, it's unfortunately, those, as you mentioned, the sort of frontline operators, you know, a hairdresser a cooker cleaner, they're the people that you know, their job solicit at that location.

Diane Nield  7:41  
And that's really telling for, especially as ladies that I was looking at a photograph of me the other day, 12 months ago, and my hair is so much longer now. So I've even got my husband doing my roots at the moment, you know, things are really changed in our home, and but he won't let me cut his hair, which I'm quite disappointed. And

Ryan Purvis  8:06  
I can understand that. A couple a couple of weeks. I got to about the you know, during lockdown one, I think it was about six weeks before I left my wife cut my I don't have a lot of hair to work with. So protected. You mentioned something and I wanted to get back to it. Oh, the the being being always available. Yeah, aspect to working now because you're at home. I mean, I went through a guilt, initially where I felt like I had to be working all the time. Because you'd pop out to help the kids downstairs or you'd be cooking dinner we did. what's called when they deliver the food in the box and you cook it's

Unknown Speaker  8:47  
Oh yeah.

Ryan Purvis  8:49  
It was called hellofresh. Yes, hello fresh. So you know, I used to pop down at five o'clock and cook that meal. But, you know, other guys would still be working to while you cook and you're still getting messages and teams or whatever it is to carry on conversations about stuff. And I had to put boundaries in. Especially now that I'm in South Africa is two hours ahead. You know, I've got to balance that as well. Have you seen much of that in your research or your discussions with other customers,

Diane Nield  9:16  
and I think boundaries. So So the area that we work in is called ra that stands for workplace resilience and well being. And it looks at what we call the five pillars of resilience. One of the pillars is energy. And when you about how you build your energy, we look at sort of, you know the physical aspect, nutrition, hydration, etc. that a big component of energy is boundary setting. So we have long conversations with individuals and teams around what boundaries are you going to put in place and when we when we look at a team or a whole organization and one of the pressure points in that system is workload. And not being able to step away from the computer. It's about taking ownership of that and sort of saying, How can we change that? What boundaries can we set there is if we were in an office, would we behave the same way, what isn't as behave in this way that we feel that we can be available to everybody all the time. So it's about changing that mindset, and communicating with your colleagues that they will see that change, as well. Because just put a boundary in to say that, you know, I won't be replying to emails between, I don't know, 12, and one, so I can sit down, have lunch with my family. And people, some people might not like to see that, because they'd been used to seeing you at that time when they've wanted it or put in times in your calendar, when you've not really controlled that. So it's very important to when you do set your boundaries that you inform and communicate out while you're doing it. And people are very accepting of it, you know, working with big global pharmaceutical company at the moment, and they are absolutely encouraging their people to sell a say, take time out, go for a walk, leave the screen for every, every 20 minutes, walk away from the screen, check your eyes, because you know you can become you can get to the point where you're finding more work, to showcase that you're still there to everyone. And you don't want to do that. And going back to your point about psychological safety, so I'm doing their diploma in psychological safety at the moment. And there's an awful lot of case studies that we're looking at through this is through Professor Amy Edmondson is work from Harvard. And and you know, a lot of the time is that people don't speak up, people don't feel that they have a safe environment to speak up about and say how can we change things because they may be judged? They may feel that they might be judged or put all set back for saying, We this needs to change. So they just kept on on that cycle.

Ryan Purvis  12:14  
Yeah, it's interesting how you, I mean, so. So in the UK, I worked one way when I got to South Africa is slightly changed. And most of the the reason for the change was a two hour difference. So because I was that we were two hours ahead. I meant it. So in the UK, I had an hour booked out for my sort of brain work. Yes, you know, because what was happening, if you didn't book something in your diary, someone else would look something in your diary. Because you'll end up with, you know, lighter day, it's just back to back calls the whole day. So I used to have a slot booked out, which was my one hour of fitness would be time with kids, or whatever it is, there'll be a break from screens and all that sort of stuff. And then we came here, so I cancelled that slot, I said, Well, I don't need that slot, because I've got all this time in the morning to go to gym and stuff, and all that sort of thing. But after about two weeks of not having that break entity back to back calls, you get to sort of three o'clock in the afternoon, and you've done nothing to some calls and you and you mentally exhausted because all you've done is be switched on the whole time. So I've had to put it back in again. Now, obviously, every so often, I have have a call that goes in there. But at least it gives me some sort of buffer before the end of the day. Yeah, so you can actually do something besides just talk to people on the phone all the time.

Diane Nield  13:35  
Absolutely. And, and sometimes, you know, there's a few leaders now that are actually putting on their, on the bottom of their email their signatures. And sometimes you might want to speak to me on the telephone rather than, you know, we've got into this habit of having virtual conferencing all the time. And that, that, you know, you have to be so attentive in that point. That is, if you're in a if you're in a boardroom, and people were in conversation, you'd be looking elsewhere, you'd be you know, drinking water, you'd be you'd be writing things down. You're not constantly staring at a screen as we are now. And that's the exhaustion comes in. But so it's I'm so pleased to hear you've gone back to putting that time back in your calendar. Because you were you know, you made some really fantastic changes. First time we spoke I was really impressed how you'd recognize that you needed to take that time to step back, recoup, recalibrate and go again. And that's what it's all about.

Ryan Purvis  14:45  
Yeah, so I think they wish to go through some of that. So we did. We met on the verge of non execs. Yeah. Yeah. And then we sort of chatted and I did the survey, the var w survey. And if you were to get some back onto that first and then we can talk about sort of what came out of that.

Diane Nield  15:03  
Yeah, yeah. So the, the the RA program is developed by a group of mental health professionals and London based mental health professionals, and it brings in cognitive behaviors, positive and cognitive psychology. And it's a psychometric questionnaire that you complete, it takes about 15 minutes, you know, it's a nice, it's a link I send you. But what I find from it is, it not only gives me real insight into an individual, it's a great platform for conversation. And there are many people that sort of dial into coaching sessions, and are unsure of how much they can share or want to share. Whereas this gives us that platform for those conversations, we talk about energy levels, it's split into five pillars of resilience. So its energy, future focus, inner drive, flexible thinking and strong relationships. And we go through each one of those pillars and looking at not just how you score, because that's kind of that moment in time that you made that you did the report, you may feel very differently when we speak. But it's also you know, where you want to be what what you can actually do to change. And, you know, there's some great hints and tips that we can share with you. And incidentally, on that note, starting today, on LinkedIn, we're putting posts every single day of people that we've worked with, that have gone on a bite size video with my colleague, Sue, who are going to share some of the hints and tips that they've put in over the last 12 months. And walking things to be like the new black really, it's kind of everyone's got into walking and that you know, when you walk, you've got that visual stimulation you're taking in bitten Indy, you know, a lot of people walk and talk on the phone, I certainly listen to audiobooks. So that's my way of checking out and having that hour and a half time for me. You know, and that self care piece, I think people have learned try to be a bit more selfish with their time. And that is working really well for people, at least they get outside.

Ryan Purvis  17:29  
Yeah, and I don't think it's selfish. I think it's, it's self care. You know, you're just a vitamin D, I mean, I use an app now. So I can measure my vitamin D while I'm walking. And I obviously take a tablet as well. So I measure those that as well. Like You I listen to something so see the podcasts or, or that I do my calls that I need to do. There it is it is to get out. And I think you need you need the time also for your brain to not be absorbing information, but also the Wonder button and solve problems that you don't if you're just back to back over time, you don't get a chance to do that.

Diane Nield  18:04  
You're absolutely right. And and allow your, your creative part of your brain to kick in as well. You know, like you're saying problem solving. And sometimes you're walking along and say why didn't I look at it from that perspective? before? Because actually, you've allowed your brain to be more creative. And you've got that freedom then rather than when you're really pushing yourself sometimes it just doesn't come. Yeah. But yeah, that that time out for me. Is is fantastic. And and there's a real you know, there's there's a fantastic analogy. Enzo Ferrari was asked many years ago, why his cars were winning Grand Prix is when when obviously Ferrari was doing very well. And and he said, you know, and they said what have you changed in the car is at the aerodynamics, whatever. And he said, the essential part of the car is brakes. Because the track has corners, so you've got to learn to brake. And then again, and that's really my motto in life. It's kind of making sure you build those breaks in to be able again

Ryan Purvis  19:21  
I think you're spot on. I mean, you know with with what we're doing now, with this digital way of working it's too easy to not have have those gaps. You don't have the you don't have the commute anymore. You don't have the you know to go get lunch because you're at the office and you need somebody to eat so you can walk outside. You know you're at home you might shoot downstairs to get something to eat up the fridge but then you're back up and you know in three minutes. Yes, you need

Diane Nield  19:49  
and you got you got a danger. You're probably doing about 500 steps in a day. Then.

Ryan Purvis  19:57  
I stuck it I've still kept my target of have 12 and a half 1000 a day. So

Diane Nield  20:03  
that's a very admirable target that is, wow. Well,

Ryan Purvis  20:08  
ironically, in the UK, it used to be 15,000. But we walk less here. Because you drive everywhere. And it's just one of those. So target half is still the target. Ideally 15

Diane Nield  20:22  
Wow, well, good on you. Yeah, some, some days I leave, leave my office. And when I've got, you know, we've got back to back workshops on and so it's unavoidable on some days, but I've probably done 1000 steps in the day. And then I'm sitting there thinking, God, why am I feeling so lethargic? Why? You know, so it's so important as well, that you know, when you're online, that is to hydrate? Hi. I say, Well, if you don't take anything away from our conversation, just drink more water. Your brain is 80% water. And you'll lose about two and a half liters a day, just by existing perspiring water vapor, urine, you know that that's your lose per day. So most of us are walking around dehydrated, and we expect our brains to function. Just like, you know, automatic. Come on what's going on today? Why? Why am I suddenly got a brain fog? perhaps maybe have a glass of water and see if it makes it?

Ryan Purvis  21:29  
Yeah, I got into habits. And the reason I know it works. So every morning, I have two glasses of water. And I can almost feel and drink it. And there's my reading up as you drink it can feel as you go through your system. And then you know, you haven't had enough. And then if I had it later in the day that I know that what she's done, let it go too long. So yeah, I think you're spot on day was go back to the raw report. I mean, are you doing that now as a as a common thing with your customers? Yeah, have you got other tools you use as well?

Diane Nield  22:03  
It's true, it's, it's pretty much 8% of our business now. And in the leadership development, we'll do other questionnaires, you know, with the like behavioral styles, learning styles, communication skills, all that sort of stuff that that roar is has become so important. You know, and companies are now recognizing this, you know, for every one pound that's invested in, in this area of and we work in sort of the resilience not mental ill health, we're building resilient teams, and resilient rituals. If you invest a pound on average, again, in about just over five pounds back, and some and that's the latest Deloitte data. So they they analyze this every two years. And some some organizations have really changed their color culture and that of psychological safety. They're seeing about 11 to 15 pounds return on for every one pound invested. But it opens so many doors for people in that they're able to speak more frankly, about how they feel. And that some are really struggling to navigate through problems. And so we're giving them different tools on how to look at that in a different way. And how to frame things better. So it comes across more positive, how their brain works, what hormones and neurotransmitters they're releasing when they are under stress. And when that again, on the other side, when they're relaxed, and they're feeling really chilled and and motivated what what hormones are being released then. So it's encouraging them to think about that mindset. And if you're framing things more positive, and thinking about when you're in a meeting about what went well, as opposed to what didn't go so well, you'll then start to see the mood change so much in the team? So that's really important.

Ryan Purvis  24:16  
are you measuring the mood somehow? I mean, are they dancing that through surveys beyond this or that to have coaching?

Diane Nield  24:23  
Well, what we tend to say is really once we've got a baseline raw report, then we'll we'll do one to one coaching with individuals and team workshops where they'll basically build a charter on how they're going to support each other. And then we'll say three months later, let's let's repeat that roll report and see, you know, what, how far you've come. And then let's look at with so we never work on all five pillars at the same time. Pick out if it's a team, a couple of pillars to work on, and then track and that measure and that's what I really like about roar is that you've got that outcome base. measurement that, that you can look at, incidentally, on the psychological safety course that amount at the moment, there's, there's a scan for that as well. So and psychological safety, you know, they go hand in hand for me. So scared

Ryan Purvis  25:20  
you mean a CAT scan or a functional?

Diane Nield  25:24  
It's a it's seven questions, and they can be done in five minutes. But it's all about the conversation, the team conversation why. And you know, psychological safety is Amy Edmondson talks a lot about teaming. It's about you know, Google's data over five years is project Aristotle, and they looked at how they can get the best team, what does the best team look like? And we might think that's the collection of the best brains, etc. But a lot of the time, it's about how people come together on a social aspect as well, how you get that opposites that attract and bounce off of each other and debate to get really, really good ideas coming through. So you know, that that scan that basically looks out how that team works together? And and do they feel that they can actually say things without being judged? Or walked over? etc? So yeah, it's a very interesting field. And I think, you know, that's, that's the next big thing that companies are really looking at is psychological safety.

Ryan Purvis  26:37  
I can only imagine, I mean, one of the others, like, the common sort of questions is now that we're going out of lockdowns and guides, are you ever gonna be vaccinated on the planet for the next two to three years? Do we go back to the office, though? Or are we gonna stay in this hybrid bottle? Or we're going to, you know, stay remote working?

Unknown Speaker  26:56  
Yeah, I think it's a good question.

Diane Nield  26:59  
Yeah, it's a good question. Because I think, moving forward, like you say, people have found, I mean, Sue, Sue, my business partner, and I will definitely stay online. Because we're working with global teams. Now we work with China, Japan, the we've got the USA this afternoon. Traveling any with everywhere, which, you know, in our previous lives, we worked in the pharmaceutical industry, and every week, you're traveling somewhere. And actually, this medium makes the world a smaller place, you don't get to see it. Which is the downside, but you actually get to build your business and reach out to much more people with this medium.

Ryan Purvis  27:46  
Yeah, no, you're so right. Because the other question is, you know, if you look at the high streets and the malls, you know, people have gotten so used to online shopping, because they've had to get used to it, you know, Will those survive? And I think, I think both will survive both store, you know, going back to work and, and going back to the malls, because they'll always be someone that wants to still do it face to face. Now, it's not the only way. And I think it's just balanced out naturally.

Diane Nield  28:11  
I agree with you. And I think you know, women, women, especially. Yeah, there's a lot of men that that you know, women are known for shopping. We meet our friends, we go for lunch, we have a great day out shopping, lots of conversation. If we just did that online, there's there's that element missing. And I am somebody and I'm very kinesthetic. And I like to feel close, to be able to try it on see how it looks and you know, ask other people how it looks. And we're losing a lot of that interaction. So I do hope that we will have everything online still, because I think that that just that getting yourself ready going out meeting friends, that whole social interaction. Uh, you know, I missed that terribly.

Ryan Purvis  29:04  
Yeah, so a great home in a doctor's office about the hope that we through this, we realize the value of other people, shops, shop shelves that are full, it all the kinds of things that that we've all found find it and send it. I think that's what we needed to reset. In that sense. It was too much of a rat race, everyone just trying to go faster and become more robotic. And if anyone was had to be forced to slow down, yes. And to appreciate what you can do, which you can't do anymore, that you could do that of grunt you could have done before.

Diane Nield  29:43  
Absolutely. And you know, a lot of people now are building or doing gratitude journals and things like that. It's been it's been grateful for what you have, which you know, going back to the pandemic again, but there's a there's a a really, really great tip that Martin Seligman is the father of positive psychology. So he, he was the one that basically founded this write down three things each day that, that I've gone well for you or that you're grateful for. And if you do that, you know, by the end of the year, you've got over 1000, things that you have found have gone well for you, or, or you're grateful for. And, and that's fantastic to reflect back on. And going back to you know, how you change your mood and things, just looking at those things that have gone well in the day. And it may be you know, the sun was out today. So actually, I went for a walk. And I've just been down the road looking for a cat and my cat following me down the road. And that actually made me happy because it's like, the cat. But that, you know, those little things we need to remember when people say, Gosh, all I do is work and I've got nothing else. Just think about what's gone well for you that day, you will find three things. And his data absolutely proved it. You know, he was working with 50 of the most depressed people whose depression scores meant that there were so low, they struggled to get out of bed. And just seeing that in one week, right in three things down each day. Actually, when he tested them at the end of the week that depression scores have come right down, and their happiness scores have gone right up. Because they were just changing their mindset.

Ryan Purvis  31:40  
Now, I can only imagine. I mean, it's something I used to do, I'll be honest, I don't do it as much in the sense of writing it down. But I kind of live my day through pictures. So I always try to take three or four pictures a day, specifically with the kids doing something. And then that goes into a journal, which, you know, like I got reminded today of 11 pictures that we took the other day. So, you know, that's that way. But if you definitely agree that it works, I just want you to find what works for you.

Unknown Speaker  32:08  
Yeah, yeah.

Ryan Purvis  32:11  
Yeah. Cool. So what do you see the future? Like, then? I mean, what do you see? How do you think work will go? How do you think digital working will go?

Diane Nield  32:19  
I think I think there will be a mixture of those that office based and, you know, digital, I think is here to stay. Incidentally, you know, by in my previous roles, that even though you know, there was travel involved to different countries, I managed teams who all worked in all home base we went office based. So you know, these virtual conferencing mediums have we've used them for 20 years. And you know, that that they will always continue. Whether they number big office buildings will continue. I'm unsure. I would hate to see not being brought back to life. It seems such a shame. But I think there will be the combination of the two and and a lot of companies are, you know, certainly at the beginning of lockdown one said, You're not going back into the office this year. Here's the computer stuff, here's everything that you'll need to work from home. And, and a lot of a lot of organizations have been very, very supportive of their employees, especially those that are homeschooling too, because that's been so tough.

Ryan Purvis  33:36  
Yeah. Yeah. Whenever you have something that we were worried about the head speed pins, we took the flat out, not that our kids were old enough to be homeschooled, but just just to have the school available. And, you know, places for kids to go every day. So, okay. And then what's your your setup like at home? I mean, are you are you now building the dedicated office with a standing desk and all that sort of stuff for you?

Diane Nield  34:02  
We talked about standing desks and doing that. And I'm still I'm still deliberating over that because I did see some data the other day that that said, Actually, you use for standing desk, but it's not. The it's not the data isn't that strong? To say don't sit, I think what it what we've, what the data did say was, what we've got is now big, easy back office chairs. So we tend to slouch. Not great for our skeleton. But I do find myself standing up quite regularly since I talked to you about your standing desk and, and it's hard for me to present. If I was in, in a in a room in an office, I would always be standing up to present. So it's strange. I find it difficult. Maybe it's because I just haven't got the equipment set up in a way that allows me to do that just now. But I'm still I'm still thinking about doing that, because I think I'd feel more grounded as well.

Ryan Purvis  35:14  
Depends on what you're doing. So I like to say this for talking, so like this and, and that, but if I'm doing something that requires like, like, if I'm studying or I'm writing a document, so in my life, so for that, I think there must be something, there must be something in your brain that says, because you're sitting, you could focus more on it. This needs to be more away or something. I don't know. How I do.

Diane Nield  35:38  
Yeah, so I've got an office at home, where I've always had this office, and my husband also works from home now. So he's, we've converted the bedroom for him. So he's upstairs and I and I do get the shout down. Can you put some more paper in the photocopier please? unpopular basis from him that? Yeah, we seem to coordinate quite well, and are respectful of each other, especially we're on if we're on conferences as well. Yeah, it works well for us. But I do, again, as Sue and I do are able to go into an office and we've done a presentation we did in September, it is a whole three day virtual conference for large organizations, all on Raw. So you know, over 100, people all had a raw report, and it was all aggregated up. So they got the whole organization view. And every day, we did videos to them. And because it was different time zones, it was a global conference. So we were online videos, live conference live breakouts. And that was enormous fun. We did it together sharing the screen together in the office, which was, which was really good. You get the energy from each other, then.

Unknown Speaker  37:02  
Yeah, how

Ryan Purvis  37:03  
long were the sessions.

Diane Nield  37:04  
And so we were on between, sort of 10 and two o'clock each day. Okay. We've done pre recordings as well, which they they got on demand, which was, which was good. Because we've got Australia dialing in, or dialing out as we say I'm late. Yeah,

Ryan Purvis  37:27  
yeah. Yeah. That's that. I mean, yeah, I think I think those those sort of eight hour workshops, days also gone. Thankfully. More, more, more focus, short, short periods. Yeah.

Diane Nield  37:40  
I think that the full day workshop, it's too much to ask of people to be fully in the in the moment all the time, it's just, you know, it's better to have these short, sharp bursts, and I feel much more energized from them.

Ryan Purvis  37:58  
Totally. And I think there's also that back back sort of, of what my kids doing, or what's happening downstairs in the house that I need to you know, so having the breaks also also helps. Great. So where can people get hold of if they want to get hold of you?

Diane Nield  38:14  
And yes, so the I, we have a website, www dot lead Coach manage.co.uk. So all one word. And that basically comes from the way we were trained. So when we both met, gosh, 25 years plus ago, working for GlaxoSmithKline. And we had the pleasure of being put in through so many qualifications and at the time, not really appreciating it, but very much appreciating it now. And leadership first, basically lead your people set that vision, get them to follow you coach them to be more autonomous and be creative, and then manage them when you need to. So that's why we're called the coach manage. And you obviously can find me on LinkedIn under Dyer nield and Twitter. Also Li coach manage.

Ryan Purvis  39:14  
I had just met just as you're saying that I realized as a book that I've wanted to recommend to which is turn the boat around to the stripper and

Diane Nield  39:20  
turn the ship around. Okay, turn

Ryan Purvis  39:22  
the ship around. David my cat is the is the author to submarine captain. And it's how he took his crew who were the worst in the Navy to be in one of the best in the Navy. But changing the one of the key things was changing that from a leader follower mentality to a leader leader mentality. Yeah. So leadership intent. As you were saying I was thinking I was actually not forget so with with a read

Diane Nield  39:50  
as it's written down, because you know, I enjoy the book.

Ryan Purvis  39:53  
Good stuff. Super. Well, thanks, Diane was good to catch up.

Diane Nield  39:58  
Thank you very much Ryan, please. A pleasure.

Ryan Purvis  40:04  
Thank you for listening today's episode here the big news, our producer editor. Thank you, Heather for your hard work for this episode. Please subscribe to the series and rate us on iTunes or the Google Play Store. Follow us on Twitter at the DW w podcast. The shownotes and transcripts will be available on the website WWW dot digital workspace that works. Please also visit our website www dot digital workspace that works and subscribe to our newsletter. And lastly, if you found this episode useful, please share with your friends or colleagues

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