How to Build a Brand People Love

Ryan Purvis  0:00  
Hello, and welcome to the digital workspace works podcast. I'm Ryan Purvis, your host supported by producer Heather Buckner. In this series, you'll hear stories and opinions from experts in the field story from the frontlines, the problems they face and how they solve them. The years they're focused on from technology, people and processes to the approaches they took, they will help you to get to the scripts for the digital workspace inner workings.

So welcome Gemma to the digital workspace works podcast, you want to get over an introduction to who you are.

Gemma Rubio Rodrigo  0:38  
Hello, and thank you for the invite having me here. Well, I have a review. I'm from Spain, but actually, I'm living in the Netherlands. And what I do I have my own company for marketing and digital communication. And I work globally. I will in in many countries, different countries in Spain and the Netherlands, Italy. In Russia. It started in Africa too early. Yes, we're in Africa, in Burundi. Burundi. Sorry, how did you find something in Burundi? Well, they contact me to be an advisory communication. Yeah, so then I say, oh, Blimey, that's interesting, because he's completely different. They don't have much technology there. Yeah, so it's a talent. So I like challenges.

Ryan Purvis  1:29  
I've done some work out. But that's sort of the world and it is it is like, we're so I flew to Cameroon, I was like going back in time, because you fly from Harrisburg to to Nairobi, Nairobi, to Cameroon, and South Africa is kind of like a mix between first of all a third world country. So fairly modern, is a little bit of, you know, accurate africanism, then you get to Nairobi, this was before they had the big fire at the airport, but it's like going back to the 80s. So it's phones and, and all the rest of it. There's still a little bit of digital displays, but But mostly, it's those old sort of ticket type displays. And then you fly from there to Cameroon, and you land in it's basically an atomic and everything's chalkboard. You know, it's it's completely devoid of technology. So it's, it's, yeah, it's gonna be interesting for you.

Gemma Rubio Rodrigo  2:21  
It's on the computer, there is a Wi Fi. That's something that basic, they don't have it. So we are trying to solve how we communicate without technology for

Ryan Purvis  2:37  
cheese. Very interesting. We need to get involved. I love that kind of stuff. Yeah, good. So So tell us a bit about I mean, you got a marketing and communications background. And you mentioned that UX is important to that. How do you go about approaching that as a project? How's that private decide? How do you go about approaching UX user experience in a project or getting adoption?

Gemma Rubio Rodrigo  3:06  
Here? Well, the user experience is really important when you do communication, because you need to understand that the brain doesn't see everything on the screen and does doesn't understand anything. So you need to understand. You need to know the buyer persona, really good. communicating the way they understand the world in the life. And also do you need to know where to put where to place the things on the computer for the people to see it? For example, I don't know why many companies, they put the logo in the down corner in the right. People never look at this place in the screen. Well, no, never. But most of the time with a look, they're just trying to put the logo there, you should put it up, always the left on the information only there are record things on the right in the rest of the country on the left. So you need to learn a leader. How do people really how do people think, towards things and also to use the words because even if you're 30 years old person is not the same to your target our waiters, your target our scientifics because they communicate in a completely different way to the communication in the user experience is really important. Because if you don't take this into account, the people don't get your information.

Ryan Purvis  4:19  
Yeah, definitely. And how do you go about figuring that out? Do you interview people do look at their desks? I mean, what's the sort of approach to understand when

Gemma Rubio Rodrigo  4:28  
you get to interviews, but first, you need to know who do you want to target? Because it's important to have an idea more or less, who you want to get. Sometimes it doesn't work. And the people coming to your web page for love is another completely different, but you need to know more or less Do you want to target and then you need to talk to them. And you need to know where do they search for information and how they do things. It's important to know their their daily routine and what do they do how they approach their technology. Where the difficulty is their problems?

Ryan Purvis  5:03  
Okay, and how do you, when you say you interview them? What does an interview feel like? What would they experience?

Gemma Rubio Rodrigo  5:10  
Well I did was select now is not the nicest way, but I like to do it more in person. So then you can also do need to try to be really neutral. So not to say something that impulsive to say something that you want to hear. And you need to really question that they can tell you how they feel, and you need to try to create trust. Otherwise, they won't tell you. And you need to be aware that sometimes people tell you what they think they think. But it's not true. We're not aware what we do and why we do things. So we need to be aware that sometimes they actually do something. But if you put the laptop in front of them, and you then let them do things, they will do it completely different. So you need to believe parts of the faith, not because they are lying, but because they don't know. And then you need to talk about sort of like and try and see how they react to how they do it.

Ryan Purvis  6:05  
You almost almost want to give them some mock ups and prototypes of what you're trying to do and get them to work with an almost sort of hidden view where you will see behind a camera watching them work and see what they what they think.

Gemma Rubio Rodrigo  6:19  
Yes, yes. Because our brain, sometimes we think when people ask us something, we always give an answer. But sometimes it's what we think we are thinking, but it's not the way we behave. And other people can see it, but we don't see it. If you ask we are when we are telling you the truth. And we are saying what we think is true. But it's not always the case. Because it's not that easy. Yeah, it

Ryan Purvis  6:47  
reminds me of something we did years ago, we were trying to get people to use a new product. And the guys were getting very, very fixated on the laptops, they were going to get another product. And we gave them we had almost two rooms one room with a with a with a poor setup, and one mother with a grater, it was the same product. And all the people had the great setup, say the product was fantastic all the garden bed laptops that it was was terrible product, and you liked it. You know, it was just to prove the point that the product was all about the tooling, which you know, won't matter in the in the long term. So, okay, and when you get involved in a product project, at least what is your sort of tips that you or things you look forward to make sure that you're successful?

Gemma Rubio Rodrigo  7:36  
Well, first I need to, to know really good the company, and to know how they want to communicate the product. Because this is also really important do as a company, what do you want to get from it? But do you want the people to tell about you focus more in the communication? So they Okay, who do you want the people to tell that you are fast, that you are always there that they can trust you? What do you want to get? What do you want the people to say about you? How do you want them to communicate about your product, this is really important. And then to create, like a personalized buyer persona for the company, to communicate everything in one way so that people can, can feel trust about them. Because otherwise you're communicating many different ways to say the same company and the people this company does. And if you ask them, they don't know why. But they tell you, I can trust this company, but they cannot tell you why. So you need to, to create like a personality and to be really strong with that personality and to communicate the way you want to be seen. And then when you have these and you have the buyer persona, when you have all this strong communication, then you can create a communication inside the tool also, because it is not only what you put in social media, it's how you communicate inside it to the world in use in the way you place the words and how you say everything is important that everything match, and everything follows the same structure.

Ryan Purvis  8:58  
And how do you keep them in sync? Because they'll be quite difficult to imagine to keep in sync?

Gemma Rubio Rodrigo  9:03  
Well, it's difficult at the beginning. And it also depends how the company works because some companies they say no, I'm doing this right I want to continue the same way. So this is difficult, but what they understand then is like for example Coca Cola, they do everything at the same way you see something from Coca Cola, you know is that important is when you create it from the beginning and you create a persona and you create like a persona with name and age and everything he you also need to create a boy's brand. So then you have the boys and you say what things you can say what things you cannot say how can you say it in which stone you have to talk, even with emoticons you can use or not use? Because Because when you define everything and you have like a like a booklet with all the information, like a manual, yeah, just building from there. And everyone is building from the same place and it started from the same place for everything. It goes together. But you did To do their to do this at the beginning, if you do you start doing it later, then it takes more work. Because people used to do it in one way and change it is difficult.

Ryan Purvis  10:10  
Yeah, I mean, it's a branding exercise to a large extent. It's almost the lifecycle of child to an adult, you got to start with the basics, get them to the property, and then crawl and then walk and then run. Yes. I wanted to be one of your your sort of biggest challenges in a project.

Gemma Rubio Rodrigo  10:31  
One of the challenges is to make understand the company's how important it is. Yeah, sometimes it is people that they understand, and that's why they bring me there. But then some of the owners of the companies is like, No, but I, I always thought it this way. Like, yes, to grow, you need to do things differently. That's the main challenge. When you start working in this is the result, then everything is okay. But the beginning to make them understand what this is important. I send you a letter with a copy that helps other people to understand that you need to differentiate yourself and be unique in order to grow.

Ryan Purvis  11:11  
Explain that a bit more. What Why is it? Why do you think COVID made people more open to him?

Gemma Rubio Rodrigo  11:17  
Well, because you need to do things online. If you are not online, you don't assist. So then people realize that they need to be online because everything was online. And so you need to be there. And then people will contact me for example, I okay, I have a this kind of product. But there are like 1000 products, they look similar, but I'm different. Now I do need to show them why you are different. And what can you do different? Can you solve their problem. So then they realize that there are many, for example, marketing company, there are 1000s of marketing companies. And you work with one that you feel that are closer to you or they communicate in the same way you feel you trusted. So you need to create your personality to reach your

Ryan Purvis  12:02  
your people. So when you get involved in a project, obviously measure understanding the company is important. But we know you're talking now, sort of internal products or projects, or you're looking at external ones as well. So b2b versus b2c versus I guess whatever the acronym is for internal.

Gemma Rubio Rodrigo  12:21  
Well, I work more in b2b. But the thing is, now it doesn't exist anymore B to B or B to C in communication, because they What did you call B to B before now there is people like the B to C, so you buy for yourself for your house? either? No, I don't know. You know how you are treated. So when you are a company, you want to be treated the same way. You don't want to be treated as a company, you want to be treated as a person, and you are trying to communicate one on one. That's why it's really important to know the people that you are targeting the company, and what position they are in how do they do things if they are the owner, or if they are not the owner, because it's not the same. If you are the general director, it but you are not the owner, it's not your money. So then you have a budget that you spend it, but if it's your own company, you behave different. But at the end, we're talking with one person, you need to know which person it is the people, people didn't talk as a company. So then they are not differentiations, you need you only need to know to who you are targeting and what kind of people it is and you stop to them as a person.

Ryan Purvis  13:31  
Yeah. I mean, if I look at how we build productive in the last couple of years, it's becoming more more about the individual person as opposed to do you still do personas as a group, but you are trying to make the product personalized? So can they can they save certain widgets in a certain order so they can have the information they want on the screen? That's, you know, that's relevant to them. You know, you mentioned company logos, we, you know, having the company logo, even though we bought a product or you subscribe to a product, having your own logo and everything, makes it, you know, connect to you. So I can see where you're going with that was the people first approach

Gemma Rubio Rodrigo  14:13  
is really important for me, it's really important to go to the people, and then they feel that you care. And when you care, they want to continue with you. They want us to go to Google and they have a lot of other companies or

Ryan Purvis  14:27  
do you do look much into gamification and all and using the sort of game mechanics to get people to buy into change? Sorry, can you can you repeat the question due to the gamification so game mechanics to get people to buy into the change?

Gemma Rubio Rodrigo  14:47  
Well, it also depends on the products and the company and the product. For Samaritans were really good in education.

Ryan Purvis  15:00  
Finding is if you can use good color schemes. You know, red would mean bad things, green would be good things yellow mean something in the middle. That helps to, to convey something in the system. And then also, when you're when you're dealing with something where you dependent on things, being able to show someone where they rate versus other people. You know, I did a project many years ago where it was all about processing documents. And the minute they showed people that they were faster or slower than the person they worked with, it drove everyone up because it was competition, you know, natural competition. And, and those sort of things they're not they're not really in your face. gamification, you know, it's like you're playing a game like, you know, as a first person shooter or anything like that. But it is that intrinsic human drive to D competitive, that you play on to get good results.

Gemma Rubio Rodrigo  15:59  
Yeah, that's, in some tools is useful that in communication, it depends what you do communication inside the product. Yes. As I use a tool for walking, that they give me money is not real money is real to our money. But I always walk in and they want to work more to get more money. And they have to do certain steps in a year. Yeah, and they want to finish earlier. So I'm working a lot in order to get in. It's just me with myself. I love to do

Ryan Purvis  16:33  
sweatcoin binding challenge. Yes. Yeah, use it to. It's funny, you know, when when that came along, I mean, I've always bought, you know, always walked a lot. And when I came along, and I shared a sheet of the my friends laughed with, why would you want to do this. And I said, because you know, you won't give me the emails, we get rewarded. In those days, I think they only gave you couldn't feel steps outside and give you anything indoors. Which, which was with a pandemic, they obviously change that a bit. And it's funny how that's part like, if I go for a walk for my break in the middle of the day. That's the first thing I turn on tenant boost on. So I get my extra five points. And I do all the three little things. It's just part of my behavior. Like I just look at the adverts like I press the button and do something and I looked at as done, I get my coin and I move to the next one. So they're not getting the advertising, maybe we got to meet per se, but I'm building up those coins get out

Gemma Rubio Rodrigo  17:38  
be the same and I never buy anything or anything, I just get more coats.

Ryan Purvis  17:44  
And we've got a medical company here called discovery in the UK is called vitality. And they also give you points for walking 10,000 steps depending which one you're on. So you know, always walking 12 and a half 1000 a day just to get the points in so it's like, you know, competitive against yourself. The good feeling that you do to achieving something by doing something else. Doing it. Yeah, it's nice. Yeah. So when you get into the actual people themselves, I mean, ever you got a sort of DD personality tests, do you do sort of anything like that to understand the people? Any sort of questions you also certain way?

Gemma Rubio Rodrigo  18:33  
Well, I guess it depends also the project. So the first one I want to get that I need to know, first they are the owners are not they are not the owners of the company is really important, I need to know who is it, who made the decision in the company, the kind of companies that I want to sell. So when I know who I need to target, I try to know if usually this is the owner or is not the owner. Because if it's your money or know what I told you before is, is really important. The way you behave is completely different. And how many people is involved in the process of buy? Because it's not the same is one you have to to target different ones. And then how they spend the day or the day what is the process to make the purchase and the decisions or the the courses I asked to everyone? And then the rest it depends what kind of project it is.

Ryan Purvis  19:24  
Did you find when you when you mentioned that? Obviously people they tell you one thing, but they show you a different thing? But do you find that if you if you sat with someone for the day and watch them work, that they spend a lot of the time almost breaking all the processes to get things done versus following the process to get things done?

Gemma Rubio Rodrigo  19:43  
Well, I never checked that to me. But But um, but I think we'll do it.

Ryan Purvis  19:48  
Yeah. I just I just find it, you know, because the thing about when you build a product is you start to put constraints on people and you make them go through a channel Often that channel, either becomes becomes too restrictive for them to get work done. So they find ways to get out of the channel to get work done. So,

Gemma Rubio Rodrigo  20:10  
yeah, I think everyone does it. I didn't make a study about it. Yeah, I'm thinking about it. I know I some people come to my mind that they did it. That I know. And I did it too. Yeah, I think it's something you know, we always try to find the shorter way to do things.

Ryan Purvis  20:28  
Totally. And and how do you find, because you work, you mentioned a few countries that you're working with? How do you find the cultures are different than how they did? Does it affect your approach at all?

Gemma Rubio Rodrigo  20:39  
Well, yes, yes, this is really important, because for example, the Netherlands that I live in the Netherlands, and I'm a Spanish customer in the Netherlands and in Spain is completely different, but completely different. In the Netherlands, you start talking about work from the first minute. And then if you have time you and you can talk about personal things sometimes not always, is when you first need to know the person and talk a little about random things, or the weather or your family or your weekend. So you cannot do it the same way in one country or another. Or in the Netherlands, for example, you go to the office, they always offer you coffee or tea, always. And you have to say yes, otherwise, it's a little rude. Or you can ask for water, you don't want to drink coffee, but in this family, they'll offer you anything. So the way of starting a meeting is different. It's like you have a protocol to follow. And you need to adapt when I came to the Netherlands they were always telling me that I was too nice. But it was because I was asking them personal questions and having tried to have a chat for them are they Oh, you're too nice. Okay, normally so I have to change a little thing when you talk with Russia is completely different to insulin is different. And now with Rudy is also another completely different thing.

Ryan Purvis  22:07  
I've I've had the exposure that you've had in Russia and and the Netherlands it is it is similar some experience that how you're gonna adapt to the room. And know the culture is the same as in you know, when when I worked in the UAE and Kuwait and all those places, you know, there's certain cultural things that you have to accept and be aware of, and it's good for you. I think everyone needs to to experience other cultures and appreciate them. Yeah, I love it. I really like it. Like a challenge every time. Have you picked up any other languages while you've been doing that to sort of interest or do you just speak?

Gemma Rubio Rodrigo  22:50  
No, I did only in Spanish and English.

Ryan Purvis  22:52  
Okay. Okay, because we didn't get into the

Gemma Rubio Rodrigo  22:55  
marketing into the communication in marketing, you need to be creative. And you need to know the vocabulary and you need to know expressions to to learn a language in a level for example, that is really complicated to learn that in a level that you can be creative, this unit, I think, 20 years or something like that is too difficult that

Ryan Purvis  23:16  
well, that's exactly what I was wondering is that you know, English, I learn English is like the default for most things. But if I think about most products, you know, bringing in another language is quite a big step. Some cases, you're most redoing the whole application to complete it to make it useful. And you mentioned sort of left to right versus right to left. Thinking also about Asian languages. The Japanese would be one Chinese course where you're going to hold a whole different script you're going to deal with the Korean so

Gemma Rubio Rodrigo  23:52  
to see how their way this also like the call offs, the colors you use for each country are not the same. What is good in for example, McDonald's, you take my loaner will take in Germany is white, and really empty. And if you go to China and you check McDonald's is McDonald's is a really strong brand, but their web page is completely different in China is spread and with big colors and full of things in the screen. So you need to adapt to also to the market. How are they communicating? What is nice for them? Yeah. The country the age the gender the studies so there are many aspects that you need to think about before you use one color or another color or more test more video.

Ryan Purvis  24:40  
And I suppose if you if you also engage in more on mobile versus when you're saying Yeah,

Gemma Rubio Rodrigo  24:48  
yeah, the size of payments is you do it for the phone of the other views. If you you want to check previews, you do it in the form but you want to buy something usually to do it in the laptop. Don't buy the in the phone does it more difficult sometimes you have to write your name and your address and many things and in the phone is difficult for review things in the phone and buy the laptop, so you need to think about it in order to show them the information that they look at the phone to show whether in the fall, and what they need to buy is better in their lovers.

Ryan Purvis  25:21  
It's interesting you say that, because I find that not always the case with personally. So I'm thinking about Amazon, and I'm thinking about Tagalog, which is a South African version. Those are those apps as much isn't just a bar on the phone. But usually when your your password in your profile created curriculum. But also, typically, when you go into those apps, you know what you want to buy? Yeah, so I'm going to buy it, you know, battery packs, or whatever it is easy to buy that I know, I know exactly how to get it to work. But when you look at something like a couch, or something like that, you want to actually research and whatever, then you have to sit by on the desktop, because you want to have multiple pages open and you want to be able to see pictures and like with your phone, you can do and you can zoom in and out. But it's not, it's never as comfortable. So essentially, I hadn't really thought about it that way. Till you mentioned,

Gemma Rubio Rodrigo  26:12  
there are many studies about the brain how it works. And most of people do it that way. Because when you have to write in the in the form is that when you go to Amazon, you use or you have your user and everything, you don't need to write your data again. So you can do it on the phone, like a couch, something that you want to buy once in the phone is really complicated. You can take these kind of things on the phone, but then when you go to buy, you go to the laptop.

Ryan Purvis  26:39  
Yeah, I definitely would consider as you as you open the web pages reviewing it. And then when you get home, you open the same web page, you have to look, I can see that

Gemma Rubio Rodrigo  26:51  
in Bicol book hotel must be for the hotels to review.

Ryan Purvis  27:03  
Yeah, sorry.

Gemma Rubio Rodrigo  27:05  
Yeah, you can check on the phone and check for abuse things. But then when you want to reboot the room, you go to the left most of the people, not everyone, but muscle. Yeah, I

Ryan Purvis  27:15  
would definitely say that somebody you've never been before. I can see you spending a lot of time researching. So you want to have another laptop. But like we go to the same places often. It's really about availability to have to. So we got connected through connecting the dots. Which with with 3d, yes. How are you involved in there to learn diversity and inclusion?

Gemma Rubio Rodrigo  27:45  
Well, I started with a few people in Spain and association come together is better. Because I will tell you many Association, the diversity associations, but usually, they are like, clusters there Oh, helping woman or people of color. They are in one book. So I was thinking together with these people why we have to differentiate this. If you can be for example, a woman, white woman black. And you can have one in one person. So why don't we put the want to want to be diverse, whether we create an association, all those things together, because what we are doing is more like woman talking to a woman of a woman and let people talk into black people about black people. So if we want to be the people to know what happened and the problems we have to share with different people. So for example, if I'm a woman, they have a problem, because people is doing some things to woman, I need to tell you that you are men, so that you can know. So we start where men and woman and we start in Spain, but we want to do it globally. But we are just starting. So we're starting small in this bank. And we are creating partnerships with other associations and helping in other countries. And one of the things that really is important is education, since you are young, because if you are a kid, and everything is normal, we don't need to create associations or anything will disappear. That is what we need to do. So we need to start from the kids. And if the kids can have the education, they will have a problem.

Ryan Purvis  29:22  
Yeah, it's it's so true. I mean, you know, all these isms sexism, racism, we do Oh, and all torn things. They're not. We don't come we don't come with them naturally. I mean, we were in South Africa at the moment. And obviously Everyone knows that African history around all these things. And my son's got a friend up the road here. He's been playing with the last couple of weeks, and all of a sudden out of nowhere, he said, My friend is brown unwired. And we just said, well, that's fun. It's normal. You know, he's just he's got a different different background too. And he would he didn't like that was what he just made the observation which was good. And you know, they're still friends, they still play, which is exactly what we want. And it's one of the one of the things we like it by coming back here is that the kids see, you know, because we live in the UK, you see a lot of work a lot of that we are split especially. And we want them to see diversity and different cultures more so because it must be normal. And it could be between people.

Gemma Rubio Rodrigo  30:24  
Yeah, that's important. And I do the same with my daughters have two daughters. Yeah, I have friends that are gay. And I have black friends I have, I have diversity in my life. And I'm an expert. So it's something diverse, too. I'm more than 40. So I have a little of everything. But I do have my daughters, they see everything normal, because they are used to it. And I think if we teach all the kids, that everything is normal, what is normal, for me normally is one thing for you. Normally, it's another thing, so everything is normally not normal. So we need to accept people for the way they are, I think it's more important to, to put out but people from good people forget about the color and the age. And

Ryan Purvis  31:10  
that's something that we talk about quite a lot with with older generations that are still fixed a little bit of ways is that you got to treat the person for what they aren't, the person is a good person, great, be friendly with an ordinary person, and you just move them aside and you find someone that's in place. So it's it's the right thing to do. It's gonna be it's gonna be a long journey, I think, yes.

Gemma Rubio Rodrigo  31:34  
Yeah, this is you go slow, but I think that'd be that changes.

Ryan Purvis  31:41  
It's the same as sort of womanism stuff. But, you know, when a woman is successful, it shouldn't be touted that because she's a woman that she's successful as she's successful. As a person. Yeah. And that should be and equality should be what it is everyone should have the same chances. Or at least the same sort of help to get there.

Gemma Rubio Rodrigo  32:06  
Yeah, I see sometimes the events of a woman and they tell us their story. And like, how do you manage to be successful at work and be with your kids need? Like, why? I will never hear that question to our men. Because the men have kids, it's like, we need to stop doing these kind of questions and talking about business and about the work of our family, then we talk about family, but when it's a business, and a man is a business, and when it's in a woman, they talk about kids like this, try to do the same talk about the person.

Ryan Purvis  32:40  
There is a level of I can understand that to extent. And, you know, I think COVID has helped a lot of families where, where the where the dads would have been in work every day, now they've been at home. So they've been a lot of new connected family. So that question that could be asked, but more because you're asking a man like yours? I mean, how do you survive? Well, I've got a lot of help. There, my wife, fortunately, is not working full time. So you know, she does a lot for the kids. But, you know, being in South Africa, we've got, you know, helpers that you know, you know, grandparents, both sides are still alive, which is great. And then we also go to help us and then we've got the kids in schools. You know, back in the UK, I would rely heavily on my wife, because she'd be the only one to look after the kids. So, you know, it's a team. It's a team sport. And I think that's that people forget. And it's even though you might have the roles of like, my wife is off to the kids and runs the house. And I work, you know, those are the roles we have at this point in time when she starts working again, and I'll have to do more how stuff. And it's a team game.

Gemma Rubio Rodrigo  33:47  
Yeah, that's true. And it's happened always. But yeah, I think we need to in the public events and things, try to normalize things. Because I think when we tell what will repeat, like the woman is with the kids, the woman with the kids like that what the people is getting, they're like, Oh, I'm a man I don't need to do. So we did. I don't know if it is the way of communicating is what we are teaching.

Ryan Purvis  34:11  
Yeah. You're right. I mean, I remember. I think it was my when my son was born, there was a guy that I worked with his healing child at the same time. I was you know, that first month of the kid is that was the hardest because rhythm or anything. And he said to the teacher looks at our last appointment with the baby and he's like, No, no, when Mikey was born, the wife rips off the kid I work like at my house or it's you know. And I think that's that's almost it, you know, it's a cultural difference. And I think there's a level of being you know, man was also in so it's okay to be involved with the kids and take the strain. As opposed to be more manly and only working only socialize, which is what those guys did. generationally changing thing?

Gemma Rubio Rodrigo  35:11  
Yeah, that way I think we need to use to show it into like the people now like, for example, we did an event the other day about the sports and diversity. Because, for example, if the kids, they love football players, and they love artists and these kind of things, if you are an artist, and you are gay is okay. But the football players, they are not gay. So it's like it's not real. They are there. Why don't we make it normal? So we did an event with a sport, elite sport, people in Spain, talking about diversity. There was one woman that says she was in the, in the Olympic Games, this is a wheelchair. And there was a man that is doing what Apollo MC is okay. And they were talking about it. And we were like, yeah, we need to just to show that it's possible, everything is possible. And you can do it too. Even if you're happy that you are gay, you can be a support person. Yeah. show his show and show

Ryan Purvis  36:10  
us our headline. I mean, last week, American football player came out and said he was going. And I mean, you look at those manly sports. And I mean, there was a Welsh rugby player that came out with a Welsh English that said he was gay. But yeah, there's probably a lot more, you know, like, you know, as long as I get it, at the level that you don't watch as a professional level, that's a job for a person, what they when they sexual currencies or whatever, it's it doesn't matter.

Gemma Rubio Rodrigo  36:43  
Yeah, but that's what, that's why I think it's important to tell you like this man from water polo, he was saying that when he was a kid, he was thinking that he could never be in sport people. He could be in the elites, because he was gay. And he saw the all the gay, all the guys who are not there. And if someone was saying he was gay, they had a lot of problems. So he was like, Oh, I can't do it. So you can see that it's normal. It's normal. So maybe 3040 years?

Ryan Purvis  37:11  
Well, let's look at how far we've come. And in a lot of ways, I mean, the new 50 pound note has got Alan Turing on who, you know, should be known for his mathematical brilliance in cracking the Enigma codes. But unfortunately, it was a sad part to him mean, you know, Target has been a game. I'm glad they've they've tried to do something to rectify, but you'll never rectify what he went through. Because he unfortunately, you know, he never saw any of that stuff. But that's what was the problem with with diversity and diversity? What's the word? diversity concept we've been, you know, break people apart and creating, creating gaps is people won't come forward and do things and those people might be the most important people that we need. So. Okay, I think we will get there. We used to. Yeah. So if someone wanted to get in contact with you to get involved, how would they do that?

Gemma Rubio Rodrigo  38:17  
What's the best way to do this through Lincoln in the CCS way, the way they can go to the web page is for diversity is together is better? Ha. This is the web page for diversity and for me, for my company in communication is defined define that Comm.

Ryan Purvis  38:34  
Okay, great stuff. Well, thanks very much for being on the podcast. And we'll keep in touch. Thank you, Ryan. Thank you for having me here. Thank you for listening today's episode. Hey, the big news app producer, editor. Thank you, Heather. for your hard work for this episode. Please subscribe to the series and rate us on iTunes or the Google Play Store. Follow us on Twitter at the DW w podcast. The show notes and transcripts will be available on our website, www dot digital workspace that works. Please also visit our website www dot digital workspace that works and subscribe to our newsletter. And lastly, if you found this episode useful, please share with your friends or colleagues.

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